PC Build

Started by: Slippery-Q | Replies: 39 | Views: 3,426

Slippery-Q
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Aug 22, 2013 3:23 PM #1071927
Quote from Exilement
haha no, it's a Dell Studio XPS with an upgraded power supply and graphics card. I do need a new case though, there's absolutely no cable management in there whatsoever.



I thought she was talking about multi-threading, the i7 is a quad-core but it effectively works like an octa-core in some applications


yeah, i'm sure you know as well as i do that cable management is a plus. if not for better air-flow, just for the fact that i am an ocd fuck when it comes to that. i'm not even satisfied with how my shit is atm.

also, not sure if she was referring to multi-threading or not. to me, it just seemed like she was misnaming the cores.

wait, do you mean hyper-threading? that's when a core is split to act as two, multi-threading is when processes are split so that it gives the user the impression that all programs are running at once.

edit: wait no, scratch that.

"Hyper-threading is Intel's trademarked term for its simultaneous multithreading implementation in their Pentium 4, Atom, Core i7, and certain Xeon CPUs. Hyper-threading (officially termed Hyper-Threading Technology or HTT) is an Intel-proprietary technology used to improve parallelization of computations (doing multiple tasks at once) performed on PC microprocessors. A processor with hyper-threading enabled is treated by the operating system as two processors instead of one. This means that only one processor is physically present but the operating system sees two virtual processors, and shares the workload between them. Hyper-threading requires both operating system and CPU support for efficient usage; conventional multiprocessor support is not enough, and may actually decrease performance if the Operating System is not sufficiently aware of the distinction between a physical core and a HTT-enabled core. For example, Intel does not recommend that hyper-threading be enabled under Windows 2000, even though the operating system supports multiple CPUs (but is not HTT-aware)."

"
Multithreading computers have hardware support to efficiently execute multiple threads. These are distinguished from multiprocessing systems (such as multi-core systems) in that the threads have to share the resources of single core: the computing units, the CPU caches and the translation lookaside buffer (TLB). Where multiprocessing systems include multiple complete processing units, multithreading aims to increase utilization of a single core by leveraging thread-level as well as instruction-level parallelism. As the two techniques are complementary, they are sometimes combined in systems with multiple multithreading CPUs and in CPUs with multiple multithreading cores."
Jeff
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Aug 22, 2013 3:57 PM #1071959
I'm not able to find some definitive information online - opinions and tests seem mixed at best, maybe you can help me Slippery-Q. I'm being graciously hooked up with a replacement computer from Pro Built Systems who are giving me one of the Hyun's Dojo computers so I can work more efficiently and also represent the website I work for. The thing is I can't decide if the processor in it is better than, worse than, or equal to the one I had in my old computer.

I believe the processor in the computer I'm receiving is an i5 4670k haswell. The processor I had was an i7 2600k Sandy Bridge. I've seen comparisons that show that each has something it's better at, and others that say they're essentially equal. Do you have any magic knowledge on this, so somewhere I should look that you know is reliable? If the processor isn't as good as my old one I'm going to look at either getting a new one or repairing my old one. Depends on how much money is involved.
Cronos

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Aug 22, 2013 5:12 PM #1072004
i5 3570k (overclocked to 4.4ghz)
GTX 780 (overclocked +150 core/+250 memory)
8GB RAM
ASROCK EXTREME4 Z77 motherboard (still an awesome board to this day)
700w power supply
H100i liquid CPU cooler

Scarecrow:

For $2000, you could easily fit in a GTX780 ($750 in Australia) and i7 3770k (can't remember price, probably like $350). Get the i5 3570k if you aren't doing hyperthreading specific things (3770k performs the same as 3570k in gaming). Intels Haswell processors (4***) aren't all that much of an improvement at the moment. Make sure you get a power supply of at least 600W. When looking for motherboards, anything that's Z77 should do you just fine (X89 for extremely high end CPUs). Most CPU's need LGA1155 compatible motherboards. I am not sure if Haswell also requires this though. 8GB of RAM is generally enough for any kind of gaming. If you are doing a lot of video editing and stuff like that, try 12gb or 16gb. If you're planning on overclocking the CPU, make sure to buy an aftermarket CPU fan or water cooler. As for the case, just make sure it supports standard ATX motherboards and has decent airflow/cable management.

Price distribution should look something like this (if you're making a $2000 PC):

GPU: $750
CPU: $300
motherboard: $130
power supply: $130
case: $100
RAM: $100
aftermarket fan: $50-$100
optical drive: $30
harddrive: ~$30-$90 (1TB-3TB respectively). SSDs are usually about $1 per GB these days. Highly recommend using one for boot drive. With SSDs, Windows loads faster than Sonic can fart.

That's like ~$1650 all up. So if you already have monitor/peripherals/OS you're good to go.
Slippery-Q
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Aug 22, 2013 5:17 PM #1072009
Quote from Jeff
I'm not able to find some definitive information online - opinions and tests seem mixed at best, maybe you can help me Slippery-Q. I'm being graciously hooked up with a replacement computer from Pro Built Systems who are giving me one of the Hyun's Dojo computers so I can work more efficiently and also represent the website I work for. The thing is I can't decide if the processor in it is better than, worse than, or equal to the one I had in my old computer.

I believe the processor in the computer I'm receiving is an i5 4670k haswell. The processor I had was an i7 2600k Sandy Bridge. I've seen comparisons that show that each has something it's better at, and others that say they're essentially equal. Do you have any magic knowledge on this, so somewhere I should look that you know is reliable? If the processor isn't as good as my old one I'm going to look at either getting a new one or repairing my old one. Depends on how much money is involved.


It just depends on what you need it for.



[TR="class: heading first"]
[TH="class: product left"]Core i7 2600K [/TH]
[TH="class: vs"]vs[/TH]
[TH="class: product right"]i5 4670K [/TH]
[/TR]

[TH="class: prop"]Clock speed[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]3.4 GHz[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"]3.4GHz[/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"][/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Turbo clock speed[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]3.8 GHz[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"]3.8GHz[/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"][/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Cores[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]Quad core[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"]Quad core[/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"][/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Is unlocked[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]Yes[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"]Yes[/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"][/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Is hyperthreaded[/TH]
[TD="class: better value left, align: center"]Yes[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"]No[/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"][/TD]





[TR="class: heading first"]
[TH="class: group"][/TH]
[TH="class: product left"]i7 2600k[/TH]
[TH="class: vs"][/TH]
[TH="class: product right"]i5 4670k[/TH]
[/TR]

[TH="class: prop"]Architecture[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]x86-64[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]x86-64[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Threads[/TH]
[TD="class: better value left, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]4[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]L2 cache[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]1 MB[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]1 MB[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]L2 cache per core[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]0.25 MB/core[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]0.25 MB/core[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]L3 cache[/TH]
[TD="class: better value left, align: center"]8 MB[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]6 MB[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]L3 cache per core[/TH]
[TD="class: better value left, align: center"]2 MB/core[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]1.5 MB/core[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Manufacture process[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]32 nms[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: better value right, align: center"]22 nms[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Max CPUs[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]1[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Operating temperature[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]Unknown - 72.6°C[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]Unknown - 72.72°C[/TD]





[TR="class: heading"]
[TH="class: group, colspan: 4"]Power Consumption[/TH]
[/TR]

[TH="class: prop"]TDP[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]95W[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: better value right, align: center"]84W[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Annual home energy cost[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]41.8 $/year[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: better value right, align: center"]20.24 $/year[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Annual commercial energy cost[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]111.78 $/year[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: better value right, align: center"]73.58 $/year[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Performance per watt[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]7.83 pt/W[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: better value right, align: center"]13.39 pt/W[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Typical power consumption[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]114.2W[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: better value right, align: center"]68.25W[/TD]





[TR="class: heading"]
[TH="class: group, colspan: 4"]Memory Controller[/TH]
[/TR]

[TH="class: prop"]Memory controller[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]Built-in[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]Built-in[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Memory type[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"][/TD]


[TD="class: value left, colspan: 2, align: center"]ImageDDR3-1600[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]Image[/TD]


[TD="class: value left, colspan: 2, align: center"]ImageDDR3-1333[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]Image[/TD]


[TD="class: value left, colspan: 2, align: center"]ImageDDR3-1066[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]Image[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Channels[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]Dual Channel[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]Dual Channel[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Supports ECC[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]No[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]No[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Maximum bandwidth[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]21,333.32 MB/s[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: better value right, align: center"]25,600 MB/s[/TD]


[TH="class: prop"]Maximum memory size[/TH]
[TD="class: value left, align: center"]32,768 MB[/TD]
[TD="class: vs, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: value right, align: center"]32,768 MB[/TD]








To put it simply:

The i7 is older, but runs faster and stronger. The i5 is much newer, runs much more efficient, and is up to par with the latest technology. HOWEVER, I would not go with the i5, IF you don't need it. The i5 provides for upgrading space, a cooler running system, and less of an expense in the long run, however, it does not have hyper-threading, it does not clock as high as the i7, and it does not run as fast as the i7.

The i7 is older, but as I said, runs faster and stronger. However, if something goes wrong with the i7, you're going to wish you went with the i5. The i7 also does not run as efficient, nor does it provide for expansion. If you were to go with the i5, you would have to switch out your MOBO though, so that's a plus, if you choose to stick with the i7. (Seeing as how you would be saving money by not having to switch out parts.) As I said, it's up to you whether you need it or not. You will be sacrificing efficiency and the ability to expand if you stick with the i7, and if you go with the i5, you'll be sacrificing power and speed for the ability to expand, and be more efficient in terms of power consumption, heat, etc.
Cronos

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Aug 22, 2013 6:19 PM #1072032
Scarecrow. I shall put together a quick build with links to the hardware. Prices vary, and scorptech's prices are fairly average for Australia.

GPU:

Never skimp on the GPU. If you want to run games or graphically intensive programs, this is the primary component you should be focusing on. Generally suggested brands: ASUS, EVGA, Gigabyte, MSI, Gainward

Gainward GTX 780 ($760)
http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/50113-426018336-2890

Why?

The GTX 780 is the flagship GPU of Nvidias latest generation of 700 series processors. It's second only to the GTX690 and the Titan. Why not the 690 you ask? The 690 is essentially two GTX 680s in one card. It does outperform the 780, however it's more expensive and requires a larger power supply. The Titan will cost you over $1000 in Australia. It's basically exactly the same as the 780 except that it has 6GB of memory instead of 3GB. You can overclock the GTX 780 and it will quite easily perform on par with the stock Titan.

Why not buy 2 lower end GPU's and run them together in SLI/Crossfire? Because SLI/Crossfire introduces micro stuttering in games. You might get a slightly higher FPS if you went with 2 GTX 760s or 2 GTX 670s, but the gameplay won't feel quite as smooth in many situations.

CPU:

This is the second most important component you need. You need to ensure that it doesn't bottleneck your GPU.

Intel i7 3770k 3.5Ghz ($380) or
Intel i5 3570k 3.4Ghz ($260)

http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/45658-bx80637i73770k
http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/45512-bx80637i53570k

Why?

These are probably the two most popular processors on the market. Neither will bottleneck any of the GPU's on the market, and they can both be easily overclocked. What's the difference between the two? Both are quad core CPU's, however the 3770k features 4 virtual hyperthreaded cores. This essentially means that it's going to perform better on applications that utilize hyperthreading (most games do not, therefore both CPU's perform almost identically for gaming). I suggest 3570k/3770k over 4*** because the 4000 series doesn't really offer any noticeable improvements, which coming with a steeper price.

Both of these CPU's can be overclocked to 4.4ghz rather easily with an aftermarket CPU fan. Get a liquid cooler and you could probably approach 4.7-4.8ghz.


RAM:

8GB is generally enough for any form of gaming. I would only suggest 12gb/16gb if you use a lot of RAM intensive programs

Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2x4GB) ($110)
http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/41589-cml8gx3m2a1600c9

Why?

It's essentially standard RAM. Nothing much to say. If you're looking for expandability in the future, you might want to look into getting 16GB (2x8GB) sticks.

POWER SUPPLY:

You need to ensure that your power supply is large enough to cater for your GPU/CPU/Motherboard ect. For the parts listed above, 600W would be sufficient. I would suggest 700w. If you're looking to RUN 2 GPU's in SLI/Crossfire in the future, then I would suggest a 900-1000W power supply. Also, look for a modular power supply (allows you to remove cords). It makes cable management far easier.

I won't really give you a specific suggestion for this one. It's really up to you. Corsair is a good brand to look into.

~$130

MOTHERBOARD:

You need to ensure that you have a motherboard that supports all of your other components. I suggest a standard sized LG1155 ATX motherboard. The Z77 standard also aids greatly in overclocking.

Once again, I won't specify an exact motherboard. There are many to choose from. Just make sure if you use the above components, that the motherboard is LGA1155/ATX/Z77 with PCI express 3.0 slots. ASROCK, ASUS and Gigabyte make great motherboards. http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/19/916

~$140

CPU COOLER:

If you're planning on overclocking your CPU, you will need an aftermarket cooler.

H100i liquid cooler ($150)
http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/48707-cwch100i

or

H80i liquid cooler ($130)
http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/48706-cwch80i

I suggest these because not only are they highly praised, but they come with Corsair's LINK software which allows you to control all of the fans in your case through software. Not to mention they look awesome and you can even change the color of the LED on the cooler.

You can get a decent CPU fan for $30-$80. By no means is liquid cooling essential. Look around for a CPU fan within this price range. They should all allow you to overclock to 4.4ghz quite easily.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: ~$1500-$1800 (can't be bothered adding it up lol)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.
.
.


Case/Peripherals are essentially up to you. I cant really give you much guidance there, although I would suggest around $120 for the case. Make sure the monitor is 1080p or higher (obviously), and if you're like me and you love responsiveness, get a 120hz monitor. If you like richer colors, steer clear of TN panels.
Exile
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Aug 22, 2013 6:23 PM #1072033
ah yeah, I meant hyper-threading, my bad.

since we're asking questions and my processor is identical to jeff's, are there any new processors that outshine the i7 2600k enough to justify the cost of replacing it? I'm assuming it'll be a few years before then, but I haven't really looked into it and I'm not very familiar with processors in general.
Slippery-Q
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Aug 22, 2013 11:43 PM #1072175
Image

psu came in the mail today, fuck yeah
TheCreator
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Aug 22, 2013 11:59 PM #1072190
Stock as fuck.
AMD 2.4 Ghz Dual Core
4 gigs of DDR3
nVidia 2 gig video card
500 gig esata hard drive
Windows 8 64-Bit
ASUS Laptop something or other, it was cheap
Cronos

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Aug 23, 2013 2:49 AM #1072333
Lol slipperyQ when I built mine, I waited for every part to arrive before building. Could never stand only half building it and then having to wait.
Slippery-Q
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Aug 23, 2013 3:00 PM #1072601
Quote from Cronos
Lol slipperyQ when I built mine, I waited for every part to arrive before building. Could never stand only half building it and then having to wait.


i wanted to do that initially, but i got so damn impatient just seeing shit sitting around inside of it's box.