Obviously, there is the "Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, We're having Sex, because i'm stronger than you."
But what else could be used as rape...

People think of rape as full muscle over powering. That you cant fight back because they are too strong. But no one takes into consideration on how much the mind controls.
Persuasion?

If someone is weak in the head, and the rapist gets in there, and completely manipulates the person, and the person mentally gives up, and stops fighting. Is that rape, or is it willing?
Most men are stronger than women physically, but they can still be raped, but it's harder to believe because men usually want sex or something similar, does a woman using your hormones against you count as rape?

Some people, are strong willed/minded, and wouldn't ever consider these possible, and are probably saying "It's easy to stand up for yourself" or something like that. But those are also the people who may not have an issue with online or real life bullies. The ones who call suicidal kids faggots. (Not saying that if you said that you are, just an example)
Everyone is born differently. They handle situations differently too. Someone comes up to you and says "let's have sex" you say no. And they beg, or they try to tell you how great it will be, some will still fight back but some will give in to the pressure, and just stop.

I bring this up because a friend of mine was recently assaulted sexually... She tried to say it was rape, but due to how it happened they don't consider it rape, they just call it sexual assualt/sexual harrassment. She was very unwilling at first, but she broke into the pressure and just let it happen. She stopped fighting because he continued to whisper things to her. And just slowly pull her in. She's also a very weak person who falls into peer pressure a lot, and is occasionally suicidal because it's easy to take advantage of her. There was no holding her down and forcing her, it was pure manipulation... and afterwards she cried. She didn't react to it until it was over, she just cried and wished she had fought. So is that rape? No physical forcing, just persuading the weak minded.

I don't particularly feel comfortable speaking for others, but yes, I would consider it rape. But in the end of the day there really isn't a way to prove it unless there were eyewitnesses, so sometimes it can hardly make a difference. "Innocent until proven guilty."

EDIT: In restrospect, I agree with Sacred. There is still the other side of the argument though, as pressure caused by the offender can still make the victim sexually vulnerable. Whether someone should've or couldn't is very much a grey area. If the offender made her in that condition, then I believe its still very much a situation. Still makes little difference either way.

The definition of rape is to force against their will. Although she eventually gave into it with an initial want to not do it, she still willingly let him have sex with her. You can sugar coat it all you want about how she didn't have such low standards to be fucked so inconsiderately, but it happened and she let it happen. By considering that rape, you're basically saying that salesmen force you to buy their products, and you yourself aren't the one who hands the money over.

I do understand the situation of statutory rape and how the young mind hasn't developed enough yet to where the older and more mature character understands concepts the younger and more immature doesn't, but since statutory isn't considered in the situation you bring up then she herself simply had a careless disregard of sex's repercussions. And don't try and pin it on having absolutely zero self-worth. Because when it comes to sex, it's more than just her life now. It's also the potential child's you could be creating by being so careless. Nothing the guy could've done would convince her of such a consequence were she aware of how serious that is. It is wrong and my heart goes out to your friend, but it's not rape.

Quote from Cobalt

or duress

Quote from Cobalt

or duress

Quote from Cobalt

or duress

It was definitely rape. The WHO defines rape as any act of sexual penetration involving coercion of any kind, and this situation clearly counts.

Well, there's a difference between being raped and being taken advantage of.

For me, rape is sexual intercourse being forced upon someone. By drugging them, using physical force, ect. Basically the victim is completely unable to defend themselves.

Taking advantage is more like using a situation to your advantage. Hooking up with an extremely drunk girl and getting her to have sex with you. Or having intercourse with someone who's grieving.

Since she didn't fight and it wasn't forced on her, I wouldn't exactly call it rape since she did say she gave into it. She was coerced into it so I would sure as hell describe it as being taken advantage. Either way, the guy is an asshole, and I hope she can find a way to stand up for herself.

As for the other part you mentioned, about men being raped; I've known guys who were raped. Genuinely unwilling to have sex, the girl takes advantage of them. Unfortunately the body might respond a certain way despite not wanting sex, so even if physically they appear aroused, it's not really what they want. Did you know that a lot of rapists purposely try to elicit an orgasm from their victim? It's so sick, and then tell the victim that they obviously enjoyed it, making the victim feel so ashamed by it. Despite the fact that they physically couldn't help it. It makes me ill. Rape is such a monstrous and complex thing.

The law doesn't protect fools.
You gave in easily, its your fault, otherwise you wouldn't have regretted it later on and wished you had fought back. As long as you weren't forced, which means you had no option but to give in or you will get hurt, then it was by your will, even though you didn't want it.

These are all pretty common sense things, and for what she did it doesn't make sense to call it rape. But that's from our view.
What if she isn't as mentally stable as the rest of us? (I'm going to start drifting away from her personally in this case)

We can easily tell when we're endanger, when to fight etc but if someone isnt mentally stable, or doesn't process things in the way we did, and someone found out they were weak in that point and took advantage of it, is it still the other persons fault? If their thought process isnt the same as the average human, people seem to give them the lower part of the situation and compare them to the ordinary when they are anything but.

With what i just said, don't focus on my friend, just think of a person in this situation. Pedophiles can sometimes easily have sex with a young child without a lot of force because not all of them understand whats going on, if there is no physical force then he didn't rape the child, he/she just took advantage of them being a minor? It is called statutory rape only because the child is younger, and they assume by a certain age you should KNOW whats going on. But what if you dont?

Holy fuck these replies are hard to read.

Did no one read the part where she clearly said no at the beginning? He completely disregarded her wishes and forced his will onto her with psychological coercion until she cracked under the pressure and stopped resisting.


all of the victim blaming going on is fucked up, I don't know what else to call it.

I never thought you could really debate what is considered rape. That's like trying to debate what actually counts as breathing.

It doesn't matter if she became willing later on. It's not an excuse.

Also, role reversal doesn't change a thing as Firefly has mentioned.

I consider rape to be any time that unwilling sex occurs (whether to male or female), not factoring in intoxication. To be honest, I don't much care for the idea that a drunk man is always considered "willing," nor do i like that laws are sexist in the first place.

Rape, in my mind, is a completely physical activity. Even in cases of blackmail; coercion; threats; there is still no physical domineering, and as such it is not rape. That doesn't mean to say that mentally coercing someone to have sex with you should be legal, it just doesn't fit into what my definition of rape is. Perhaps there are other laws that do protect from the other forms of forced sex that I mentioned, such as the "sexual harassment" that you gave in your example, OP. I'm not sure that it matters much, anyway, considering it's all semantics. Of course those semantics matter in a court of law and decide the punishment, but I'm convinced that the punishment will fit the crime in most cases.

[edit]
Just read a couple of responses on the previous page. I'd like to clarify that what I'm saying isn't victim blaming or excusing the guy's actions. I'm merely suggesting that it's a different form of crime, perhaps no less excusable, but nonetheless different than rape (semantically).

Quote from Automaton

[edit]
Just read a couple of responses on the previous page. I'd like to clarify that what I'm saying isn't victim blaming or excusing the guy's actions. I'm merely suggesting that it's a different form of crime, perhaps no less excusable, but nonetheless different than rape (semantically).

Exactly.

I'm really enjoying this thread, i'm liking the different thoughts coming into this.
But as Exile said, she did resist in the beginning and told him no, just after the pressure and pursuasion she gave up. But if they aren't man handling you, then it's not rape.
I'm one of those people who believe the mind is stronger than the body, hence why i was trying to see if you could rape someone by over powering the weak minded, not the weak strengthed... Idk how to word that. Lol