Hey guys,
First, make the two miners gather mana, Wait until you have 50 mana and immediately after you have clicked to train a speaton, make the miners mine gold after you have trained one spearton send him to take control of the middle money tower or whatever it's called.
Then make 2 swordwrath once you have enough gold, After that is completed, produce two more miners and make one of them gather mana.

Then train 1 more spearton, while also sending your current men to go and rush, If the opponent does not know this way to win, you are at 75% of winning, After you have trained the speaton, Send him, and keep on producing an squad of three swordwrath and one spearton.

If your opponent does know how to do this, it is likely you'll meet another speaton while running to the tower in the middle.

COUNTER: If a spearton show's up at your castle early game, it is best to garrisen all units and immediately train 2 sword wrath and one castle archer, That should get rid of him and send one swordwrath to the middle tower to take hold of it and get the money advantage you need.

Goodluck, Tell me if this works cause it does for me...

I think your rating is 1300 to 1400. It does not work for me because most people at my rating can counter it. If they use this strategy against me, i train 3 swordwrath and kill the spearton, then their miners

CA isn't necessary although it helps 3 swords with micro should be sufficient

Actually, the spearton start does have a use, even at high ratings; it can completely counter a chaos bomber start, and is also useful for countering the single-archer start.

While the spearton start might be a terrible idea for every game, it is a worthy gambit if you know for certain you're playing against someone who uses the single-archer into archer-sword start, or, even better, if you're fighting a double-archer start.

It's a very risky gamble nontheless

Quote from pumuecils

It's a very risky gamble nontheless

Very true; but you know what they say about risky gambles. Win or lose, it's over in a flash.

Spearton start is...only viable at 1300-1400 area.

3 swords > 1 spear.

chaos bomber start

There's only one viable chaos start atm - 2 miners 2 crawlers.

While the spearton start might be a terrible idea for every game, it is a worthy gambit if you know for certain you're playing against someone who uses the single-archer into archer-sword start, or, even better, if you're fighting a double-archer start.

First opener...is confusing, unless you're talking about archer/miner -> sword. Get another sword and you're all setup to counter spearton.

Second opener, who the heck does double archer start? Seriously, what.

On the flip-side, on Grass Hills, the dual archers will have enough room to kite back to their base and do lots of damage to your spearton while getting a sword to finish it off.

Dual archer is a very stupid start on GH...standard meta is 2 miners/1 sword, if a game is dual archer vs spearton there's something seriously wrong with the players.

Dude, while I got 1 spear and 2 swords, my friend had 1 archer and 5 swords.

Quote from DragonArcherZ

Spearton start is...only viable at 1300-1400 area. 3 swords > 1 spear.

First opener...is confusing, unless you're talking about archer/miner -> sword. Get another sword and you're all setup to counter spearton.

Second opener, who the heck does double archer start? Seriously, what.

It really depends on how you play, but a spearton start is still viable for me at 1700. When I go up against the same enemy twice, I might use a spearton start partly for the shock value and partly for actual countering power.

And who says you have to use the spear to kill their start? You could be attacking their economy instead, while you buy a castle archer and miners. If they're stupid, you can sometimes even save your spear for more uses later.

If by viable, you mean pwnage, then yes, I agree with your statement that spear start is only viable at 1300 to 1400 range; but if by viable, you mean possible, then spear start could be "viable" right up to 1700s where I'm playing right now.

It really depends on how you play, but a spearton start is still viable for me at 1700. When I go up against the same enemy twice, I might use a spearton start partly for the shock value and partly for actual countering power.

Actual countering power? Let's assume it's GH. He's going to have 1 sword at tower and have around 5-6 miners before your spearton gets to centre. Once it gets to centre, he'll run back, getting swords. He held tower for a shortwhile, along with around a 3x stronger economy and enough swords to hold your spearton off. He can garrison, or attack with miners, or do the heck he wants. Unless he completely mucks up, you've already lost.

Assuming short map, sword/archer will be the meta, maybe archer/miner. For sword/archer, he *will* have 3 swords out and 1 archer out and be able to more than deal with your spearton. If you have to go for a CA, then you've just lost 300 gold you should have invested into an archer, or miners, or swords. He's going to be able to take tower and he'll have a standing army. If it's archer/miner, it can be trickier but with some micro he'll deal with you. In fact, you can usually just run to your opponent's side and pwn their miners, or statue faster than your one spearton can, meaning he has to run back to your side, allowing you to mine.

Basically, provided he gets his units out and knows how to micro, you'll be left with a weak economy, without a tower and a spearton that takes 1 minute to heal to full health.

And who says you have to use the spear to kill their start? You could be attacking their economy instead, while you buy a castle archer and miners. If they're stupid, you can sometimes even save your spear for more uses later.

Yeah, who said that? If it's a short map, he'll have the army to attack your economy or deal with your spearton. A double garrison works in his favour, just saying. If it's a long map, he'll have the economy to churn out way more units without even stopping a miner flow.

If by viable, you mean pwnage, then yes, I agree with your statement that spear start is only viable at 1300 to 1400 range; but if by viable, you mean possible, then spear start could be "viable" right up to 1700s where I'm playing right now.

Your definition of "viable" (possible) implies it can go up to any ranking. My definition of viable is using the spearton start, you can actually win at a reasonable rate with it. Trust me on this one. Spearton start is basically killing you. There's a reason why players 1.8k+ don't do spearton start, they do archer/miner (or 1.9k+ the sword/miner/miner meta will really show.)

Quote from DragonArcherZ

Actual countering power? Let's assume it's GH. He's going to have 1 sword at tower and have around 5-6 miners before your spearton gets to centre. Once it gets to centre, he'll run back, getting swords. He held tower for a shortwhile, along with around a 3x stronger economy and enough swords to hold your spearton off. He can garrison, or attack with miners, or do the heck he wants. Unless he completely mucks up, you've already lost.

Assuming short map, sword/archer will be the meta, maybe archer/miner. For sword/archer, he *will* have 3 swords out and 1 archer out and be able to more than deal with your spearton. If you have to go for a CA, then you've just lost 300 gold you should have invested into an archer, or miners, or swords. He's going to be able to take tower and he'll have a standing army. If it's archer/miner, it can be trickier but with some micro he'll deal with you. In fact, you can usually just run to your opponent's side and pwn their miners, or statue faster than your one spearton can, meaning he has to run back to your side, allowing you to mine.

Basically, provided he gets his units out and knows how to micro, you'll be left with a weak economy, without a tower and a spearton that takes 1 minute to heal to full health.



Yeah, who said that? If it's a short map, he'll have the army to attack your economy or deal with your spearton. A double garrison works in his favour, just saying. If it's a long map, he'll have the economy to churn out way more units without even stopping a miner flow.



Your definition of "viable" (possible) implies it can go up to any ranking. My definition of viable is using the spearton start, you can actually win at a reasonable rate with it. Trust me on this one. Spearton start is basically killing you. There's a reason why players 1.8k+ don't do spearton start, they do archer/miner (or 1.9k+ the sword/miner/miner meta will really show.)

Well said. You are probably right about 1.8k+, and you are also quite right about actual countering power; however, I must point out that I'm in the 1700s, a casual player, and not a pro. I'm not endorsing this strategy for 100% win rates. I'm just saying that you can use it as a casual player and still win. True, it's a bad strategy for any pro, but when played against people my rating, it still works a remarkable amount of times. Maybe if you read how I use it?

1: I get a spearton by setting miners on mana.
2: I send the spearton to attack their base (rushing past their attackers) once the other side launches an attack on mine. It's usually an archer-sword start, sometimes single archer start or sword spam. Unless it's sword spam, everything is according to plan.
3: If they withdraw their units to attack my spear, then I'm set. I'll save up for castle archer and then recall the spear when I have enough.
4: While they try to kill my spear with an archer and 2 swords and CA, I've got my own CA. At this point, I withdraw the spear if it may survive, if not, I simply kill as many miners as possible.
5: With their army, it is impossible for them to bypass my castle archer; if I still have a spear, then, I have a chance at bypassing their defence when it heals up to rejoin my second spear, while they are queuing up their first one.

Overall: Both sides get castle archer, but one side has attacking forces that can't bypass castle archer, while the other side holds a slight advantage by holding the army that can most quickly attack again. The enemy has the mid-tower, but it will soon be retaken. Economy is about equal.

Counters:
1: They simply ignore the attacking spear and kill your miners. (it isn't usually seen where I play, but yes, this is why pros like you guys don't use it)
2: They start by sword rage.
3: They start by turtling.
4: They micro well enough to garrison only the attacked miners. (not usually seen at casual levels, and if it is seen, the player is still there because of their shitty macro.)
5: Superior macro

Anyway, I'm not saying this strategy is good, by any means; I'm just saying it's a start you can win with at a higher level than you anticipate. The first time I ran into this start was around 1600, not 1400 (and trust me, I was stuck there a long time) ; it completely pwned my usual start. (single-archer into CA)

Maybe it's time you could make another account to see how the trends are changing? I mean, you guys have been at the top of the game for so long it's probably easy for you to not notice what lower-level players are up to now.

P.S. I already mentioned I don't usually use this start myself; only when I'm sure the other guy is going for archer-miner do I ever use it.

Maybe it's time you could make another account to see how the trends are changing? I mean, you guys have been at the top of the game for so long it's probably easy for you to not notice what lower-level players are up to now.

I laughed. Unlike what you think, I'm not some pro with 1000 alt accounts spamming the leaderboards; I'm a 2050~ player with only a TZx alt, so yes, maybe the trends have been changing, but I definitely haven't been stuck up in Top 20 with my army of alts. Cool to be refered to as a pro though :P

It's usually an archer-sword start

Short map, yep.

single archer start

1800 meta archer/miner is where it's at. I can see spearton doing some damage. The problem is, it's basically miner/miner/sword every map in OvO unless it's a short map because it gives you a better economy, archers can be gotten later and if they start pressuring with an archer, you can use a sword to tank damage for miners and garrison it when it's almost dead.

Unless it's sword spam

Like I said, basically every start in mid-high tiers are sword/miner/miner. Once they scout that spear, you can bet your money on sword spam.

and CA

If they're geting a CA against a spearton, they have no idea what they're doing.

---

I gtg now, but maybe it works at your level, but it's not good to use this anyhow just because of how easily it is countered.

Nullhead's patented flaw listing:
#1:Spearton start; This is apparently highly argued, but at the basics spearton costs 450 gold, 50 mana, and 3 population room. now if you look at the price of a 3 swordwraith and rage:425 gold(50+(125*3)), 50 mana, and 3 population. if you look at this, and the fact that swordwraith with rage(if used right) BEATS the spearton, than you realize the plain truth that spearton starting isn't the best.
#2:NOT ENOUGH MINERS; I could rage on and on about this, you only get 4 miners, on average I have seven, that's almost twice as much. imagine if somebody just decided to mass shadowraith just to harrass your military, the mass would likely survive, some unscathed and you would be down miners (which would suck if he killed them all and you didn't have enough money for a miner) and he could attack again WITH HEALED NINJAS & A LARGER FORCE THAN HE HAD!!! basically, make more miners.

I would like to know your ranking & a replay in order to tell what your opponents did wrong in these battles.

I usually do a sword and two miners start so by the time you get a spearton I will have 5 miners and enough gold to get CA. If you decide to attack my economy I will quickly garrsion the wounded miner. You won't even have the tower for long because I can simply use an archer to harass you.