Quote from DiPi

Lol and who the hell counters them? I pratically see no way to counter them if not to not give them kills
I remember owning a Riven on top once, but that was because I played Rengar and I literally sit under tower for all the lane phase farming untill I didn't have enough money for a Randuin's Omen and a Brutalizer (and some boots)

what I mean is they really don't play well on them, they play those champs because they want to make plays like boxbox or bestrivenNA. Those streamers are godlike riven players, and tw server bronze players just play riven without practicing and understanding riven's spells and combos. About counters, I think if you understand your champion well, then you can play against lane dominators, for example, when top lane facing riven, I usually choose Darius if I go aggressively, or I choose Nasus and last hit minions under turrets(since siphoning strike helps last hitting under turrets.). If I laning against Yasuo, then I will choose mordekaiser. since his E isn't a projectile and has decent range harass.tw yasuo players are so stupid that they will fight a Morde with all his kits up and fully charged shield at lvl3.

also I heard some tw diamond and challenger says that cho'gath counters riven

I think people should stop trying to listen to the challanger/diamonds streamers about counters, because they get that conclusion according to some play styles and under certain circumdtances using certain masteries and runes. Any champ can win against another one, it all goes on the player's skills and how prepared is your enemy to counter your strategy.

Same applies to the idiots that look at boxbox getting 30 or 40 kills with riven and then they go and try to simulate their playstyle. That just won't work.

Yeah you can get tips and stuff from their style, useful tricks and whatnot. But copy their style to use the champion? Naaahhh each person develops their own style and build, if you try to copy someone else's is just gonna end terribly bad.

Quote from Camila

I think people should stop trying to listen to the challanger/diamonds streamers about counters, because they get that conclusion according to some play styles and under certain circumdtances using certain masteries and runes. Any champ can win against another one, it all goes on the player's skills and how prepared is your enemy to counter your strategy.

Same applies to the idiots that look at boxbox getting 30 or 40 kills with riven and then they go and try to simulate their playstyle. That just won't work.

Yeah you can get tips and stuff from their style, useful tricks and whatnot. But copy their style to use the champion? Naaahhh each person develops their own style and build, if you try to copy someone else's is just gonna end terribly bad.

Frankly, it's not about copying a style: I think it's more about not having enough experience with a champion and how to react to developements

An example

Let's say that I'm playing Talon mid and I go back for the first time with something like 1550 gold
Now, I have to spend all this gold. It can go generally in many ways, but here are 3 possibilities:
-If opponent is an aggressive AP mage against which you have trouble, you usually get an Hexdrinker, some pots and if their jungler is good a ward or 2
-If opponent is a fighter/tanky champion, you go with a Brutalizer, some pots and depending on the situation boots (if I didn't buy them before) or wards
-If opponent can be killed, I get a B.F. Sword so that I can kill him and try to start snowballing
However, these aren't the only possibilities: if I am against Ziggs, I prioritize mobility more than dmg. Or, if one of their lanes is in disadvantage (bot or top), I get some Mobility Boots to help snowball and get assist/kill gold
I know all this, however, because I spent so many matches playing with talon mid (he's the first champion I ever bought) that I can picture, thanks to my experience, the right possibilities and reactions

Now, when a player tries to copy a style, it works only if the match is 100% the same as the match he saw. Otherwise, he ends up trying to build AP/AD instead of armor/health while in lane with a 4/0 Yasuo (which is a bad thing for those who do not know it), because he has no experience on what to do when behind, thing that instead the one who he's copying already witnessed over and over and over again so that he could do that "perfect match" which inspired people
It's something similar to what I said about the last Nemesis collab on your clan page about animation and inspiration

Yeah I think you're right, counters doesn't mean everything, all game in league of legends are based on player skills, not champion counterings. High Elo players doesn't mean everything. the thing is, I often read guides from diamond/challenger players, but I read the guide about my favorite champion's runes, masteries, and how should we do in those different situations. For example, one of my favorite mordekaiser guide says: he is counter assassin. I agree that is true, but I often lost laning to assassins, this is what you think, experiences. I didn't win the laning and dueling because of lacking experiences. After I practice more, I can't say 100%, but I win lots of game against assassins with Morde.

Ehhh DiPi... playstyle = Way to play a champion

Which ivolves of coirse the build, the match, runes, masteries, gold and situations you're in. There are too many factors to consider to watch a stream and be like "Oh if I copy this build I'll be just as good". That was my point

No need to calculate gold and possibilities lmao.

Quote from Camila

Ehhh DiPi... playstyle = Way to play a champion

Which ivolves of coirse the build, the match, runes, masteries, gold and situations you're in. There are too many factors to consider to watch a stream and be like "Oh if I copy this build I'll be just as good". That was my point

No need to calculate gold and possibilities lmao.

Lol that was just a basic example to introduce the idea XD

Counter play doesn't matter in bronze, just like how counter play doesn't matter in starcraft 2 bronze league. They aren't at a skill level or a large enough understanding of the game to even be truly effected by it. In starcraft I climbed out of bronze by practicing and maximizing my macro, scouting, expansion and economy, all I did was build massive amounts of marines and then destroyed my opponent with my superior force. What I built hardly mattered, because no one in bronze league could do anything about it, it didn't matter what they built. I had so much more money and my infrastructure was so ahead of them they crumbled.

Focus on basic skills, instead of flashy bullshit.

Controlling your character with your mouse are you really good at dodging in every direction? Alertness, especially map awareness, so many bronzies get taken out by shit that they could've seen on the map if they paid afuckingttention, this goes hand in hand with vision control. No one is perfect, but every 30 seconds at least attempt to glance at the minimap, you'll be amazed what you catch. And for the love of jesus place wards, it's easy, just find a bush the enemy may walk by and set it down. So many bronzies get taken out by over extending constantly, when they have no control of vision on the enemies side of the map and can only see two enemies on the minimap that they probably aren't looking at anyways, and they still go in on tower. YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING IF THEY'RE COMING UP BEHIND YOU OR FROM ANY OTHER DIRECTION. The difference in vision control when I play with golds and when I play with bronzies is staggering, playing with bronzies is like playing blind, it's like not scouting in starcraft, you have almost no information. Especially, please please please ward dragon, if neither your support or jungler have any sort of vision control over it, you might as well just give it the fuck up. Finally, farming, you need to figure out how to last hit minions to the best of your ability, the gold income is SO IMPORTANT, I can't even express. When I play Vel'Koz against a bronze player, I'll end up with 2 - 3 times the farm they have. Once I back, they're so fucked.

These are mistakes that higher level players don't make as often and they're easier to rectify than trying to learn about complex things, like counterplay.

And one last time, look at the fucking map.

Do you guys have a league team? I would love to play with you guys once I hit level 30

Quote from Miracle

Do you guys have a league team? I would love to play with you guys once I hit level 30

Depends
I'm on EU West
Home of potato servers

Quote from DiPi

Depends
I'm on EU West
Home of potato servers

You're damn right. Actually hasn't been that bad as of late lol.

Quote from Jutsu

Counter play doesn't matter in bronze, just like how counter play doesn't matter in starcraft 2 bronze league. They aren't at a skill level or a large enough understanding of the game to even be truly effected by it. In starcraft I climbed out of bronze by practicing and maximizing my macro, scouting, expansion and economy, all I did was build massive amounts of marines and then destroyed my opponent with my superior force. What I built hardly mattered, because no one in bronze league could do anything about it, it didn't matter what they built. I had so much more money and my infrastructure was so ahead of them they crumbled.

Focus on basic skills, instead of flashy bullshit.

Controlling your character with your mouse are you really good at dodging in every direction? Alertness, especially map awareness, so many bronzies get taken out by shit that they could've seen on the map if they paid afuckingttention, this goes hand in hand with vision control. No one is perfect, but every 30 seconds at least attempt to glance at the minimap, you'll be amazed what you catch. And for the love of jesus place wards, it's easy, just find a bush the enemy may walk by and set it down. So many bronzies get taken out by over extending constantly, when they have no control of vision on the enemies side of the map and can only see two enemies on the minimap that they probably aren't looking at anyways, and they still go in on tower. YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING IF THEY'RE COMING UP BEHIND YOU OR FROM ANY OTHER DIRECTION. The difference in vision control when I play with golds and when I play with bronzies is staggering, playing with bronzies is like playing blind, it's like not scouting in starcraft, you have almost no information. Especially, please please please ward dragon, if neither your support or jungler have any sort of vision control over it, you might as well just give it the fuck up. Finally, farming, you need to figure out how to last hit minions to the best of your ability, the gold income is SO IMPORTANT, I can't even express. When I play Vel'Koz against a bronze player, I'll end up with 2 - 3 times the farm they have. Once I back, they're so fucked.

These are mistakes that higher level players don't make as often and they're easier to rectify than trying to learn about complex things, like counterplay.

And one last time, look at the fucking map.

He's not shitting. Even if you're top lane warding and keeping vision is one of the most important fucking things you can do. I was able to go from Bronze 5 to Silver 3 in one day just from figuring out how to ward properly. I personally use all my available wards. Also fuck yeah starcraft. Someone should make a thread about that.

Quote from Apex-Predator

You're damn right. Actually hasn't been that bad as of late lol.

You know, now that I think about it, real EU LCS should be set with players playing with ping that exceeds 200/300
Only in this way you'd have that "European" feeling (seriously, these casual "NASA-wifi" guys piss me off) :3

Quote from DiPi

You know, now that I think about it, real EU LCS should be set with players playing with ping that exceeds 200/300
Only in this way you'd have that "European" feeling (seriously, these casual "NASA-wifi" guys piss me off) :3

lmao, It depends on your ISP most of the time and traffic. I usually get 36 ping with virgin.

Quote from Apex-Predator

lmao, It depends on your ISP most of the time and traffic. I usually get 36 ping with virgin.

It would be fantastic though
To see "pros" trying all their cool tricks and failing them
So that when you spectate you see cardboard-pro players XD

I would think counter champions are like champions with the skill set and stats that would normally be hard to play against for your champion... like how Veigar is a useless piece of crap now and loses to almost every single gap closing assassin. All you need to do is jump on him and he'll die. He has no escape and he is incredibly squishy, if he can't land his stun, he's done for... so for you, you have to perfectly time a stun/combo, or dodge all their skills and just maybe you can beat them, while they just have to press one button then mash everything else and you die lol.. or how if you play an Ashe into a Blitz, you're at a huge risk of getting pulled and dying cause you have no escape. Or laning against a Nidalee with Darius where Darius can't even touch her while she can easily harass cause of his lack of mobility and his hook can be easily jumped out of with pounce.

So I think it definitely plays a factor in all elos.. if the two players are of equal level, the counter champion will likely have an easier time. If you're a much higher skill level than you're opponent though, you can probably work past your weaknesses and still win lane. Obviously, this is just one in many factors to win the game and counter champs are probably only really effective in lane.. A team fight would be more focused on your comp instead cause it's not like you counter all their champions >__>.
The ability to CS, deny, trade, position, team fight, etc will also determine how well you do against your opponent so obviously its not like you'll just win if you have a hard counter.