Official Clan War Ruleset.

Started by: WyzDM | Replies: 80 | Views: 25,940 | Sticky

Dark Phoenix
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May 19, 2014 10:26 PM #1197139
Quote from IHATETHISNAME
Swords, Tower spawn, mages and giants are hardly imbalances with the game my man, nor are they exploits in any way...
If you had lost to any of those it is indeed your own fault.
If you "went easy" on "a low ranked alt" then that is your own fault for sandbagging.


*Sigh* No, it's how these units are abused that ruins the fun and gameplay for everyone.

Ending a match 2 minutes in with Tower Spawn and 2 Swordwraths by rushing before anyone has any actual defenses, how is that a skillful, earned win?

Dark Side tactics are exploiting units or game mechanics (Like the ability to rush in literally 5 seconds into a match) to win, adding in a competitive side to this game is only going to allow for those people using underhanded tactics to be (along with their friends who probably do the same thing) crowned the best of the best as a group.

Your last point is right, but no one does wonders for the community by stomping low ranked players.
Nyarlathotep

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May 19, 2014 10:39 PM #1197144
So, you're saying we should ban any sort of sending of units to break an early game turtler who can't even buy castle archer. Okay.
_Ai_
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May 19, 2014 11:14 PM #1197164
Rather, it's the other players fault if they are not able to handle 2 swords early in the game. It's where the game is balanced the most (OvO wise).

And if you think things like this is 'underhanded', you're not gonna go very far in SE.
Dark Phoenix
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May 20, 2014 4:25 AM #1197250
Quote from IHATETHISNAME
So, you're saying we should ban any sort of sending of units to break an early game turtler who can't even buy castle archer. Okay.


Not ban.

But I can send out 2 Swords (TEN SECONDS INTO THE GAME) and virtually devastate the enemy (Killing off all of the miners or your sword defense) or even destroying the statue before you can do anything about it.

It takes away the fun from this as you end the match 30 seconds in or just prolong it unnecessarily (Due to how you have to work with few miners).

It's not turtling, your just actually playing the game instead of trying to end it as soon as possible

Quote from _Ai_
Rather, it's the other players fault if they are not able to handle 2 swords early in the game. It's where the game is balanced the most (OvO wise).

And if you think things like this is 'underhanded', you're not gonna go very far in SE.

It takes away from the fun, although what you say is true, if you focus on economy it's really hard to recover from this.
_Ai_
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May 20, 2014 5:29 AM #1197261
You can send the swords into the base, but if you didn't expect any resistance, you are sorely wrong. Rushing in early makes it competitive, fast paced and it test your micro and macro skills. And actually, people have fun playing it this way. Players would want to gain rank too, which the whole game pretty much revolves about.
Dazzy

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May 20, 2014 8:27 AM #1197323
So...you call a legitimate strategy a "dark side strategy". Right.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

Read that. More specifically:

"I once played a scrub who was actually quite good. That is, he knew the rules of the game well, he knew the character matchups well, and he knew what to do in most situations. But his web of mental rules kept him from truly playing to win. He cried cheap as I beat him with “no skill moves” while he performed many difficult dragon punches. He cried cheap when I threw him five times in a row asking, “Is that all you know how to do? Throw?” I gave him the best advice he could ever hear. I told him, “Play to win, not to do ‘difficult moves.’” This was a big moment in that scrub’s life. He could either ignore his losses and continue living in his mental prison or analyze why he lost, shed his rules, and reach the next level of play."

And actually, what you're saying is bullshit because those strategies don't work anyway.

"But I can send out 2 Swords (TEN SECONDS INTO THE GAME) and virtually devastate the enemy (Killing off all of the miners or your sword defense) or even destroying the statue before you can do anything about it."

*24 seconds

*Castle Archer

*Archer

*Own swords

*sandbag cause no one in their right mind would try to "destroy" your statue with 2 swords.
WyzDM
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May 20, 2014 2:35 PM #1197424
Quote from funnyfingers
[Less maps] narrows it down far to much. Honestly if you wanna make it fair to smaller clans then the larger clans shouldn't use the top guys all the time.


Quote from _Ai_
But if we want to win, we'll use our best guys, right?


This is the purpose of a prep. Mind you, this isn't for steamrolling any time a team feels like. But in all honesty, Preps are there to be won. We will decide what your clan is capable of, but don't' expect us in any way to go easy enough on you to let you win.


Regarding your posts DP:

Quote from Dark Phoenix
A random map would be chosen in advance, allowing Clan Members To pick their best members suited for that map.


Exactly how does one pick this random map, and how is it fair for both teams? Striking maps to one is the best method, as players mutually agree on what they play on by deciding what they don't want to play on. Make sense?


Quote from Dark Phoenix
Empires could be clan wide, every clan as their own individual clan (Example: Elements Reborn are all going to play as The Elementals)


Again, how is this fair? Not everyone is a paying member, and not everyone plays Elementals in Elementals Reborn, as ironic as that sounds.

Quote from Dark Phoenix
The Total rank (Adding up all of the ranks of the equivalent [Mean if a Clan of 4 members goes up against a Clan of 20, the 4 highest ranked people will be added up, against the 4 member clan's total rank] amount of members) to prevent a Clan that is ranked 2000 below a High ranked clan from winning on a fluke (And taking their spot as the Best Clan).


This isn't necessary at all because this "best clan" title doesn't even have a struggle for it. You're throwing it to whoever can piss better numbers.

Quote from Dark Phoenix
To clarify, to prevent low ranked clans (Be it Alt. accounts or even just a lucky fluke win) from being matched with favored, experienced clans. Or even beating them with fluke wins, or low Ranked Alts.

- 3 unbiased 3rd party judges will judge the replay to determine the actual victor, just destroying the statue is prime for Dark Side tactics. They could be ranked on Sportsmanship, Tactics, and things of the sort.


Yes, player A did win within 4 minutes with a proud display of swordswrath, but I really appreciate the nerve of player B for sending that hero archidon to kite a few times before dying to rage. Bravo player B, style points for you and a brownie.

Quote from Dark Phoenix
*Sigh* No, it's how [high tier] units are abused that ruins the fun and gameplay for everyone.


Explain to me how they're ruining the game? It sounds like you're upset only because you don't have a proper method for closing out the game and lose to players packing giants up. In which case that is your own fault. I suggest watching some higher level replays to get a sense of what the actual game meta is like. You may be surprised how little giants make an appearance.

Quote from Dark Phoenix
Ending a match 2 minutes in with Tower Spawn and 2 Swordwraths by rushing before anyone has any actual defenses, how is that a skillful, earned win?


It's more a lack of skill from the other player. He didn't even put a fight up for the tower. He saw two swordwrath and instead of focusing on an army, he poured all his gold into a defense, and then just ran miners. That's poor macro, and you can't defend it. The tower is a strategic point in the game not only because of how it gives a small gold boost, it's map control. An army over the tower has more map space to work with units. There's more response time, more advantages to a pushing start play than there is to setting up a wall and running nothing but miners. This isn't a game imbalance, it's the nature of how things work. Again, look at some higher level player videos and tell me how many of them do you witness start with a castle archer? I'll be surprised if you find even one.

Quote from Dark Phoenix
Dark Side tactics are exploiting units or game mechanics (Like the ability to rush in literally 5 seconds into a match) to win, adding in a competitive side to this game is only going to allow for those people using underhanded tactics to be (along with their friends who probably do the same thing) crowned the best of the best as a group.


Let me break this down... You don't like aggressive starts because they're "unfair," but you also dislike hulking armies with giants and wizards because that's "broken." It sounds like you're whining because you can't win with your pathetic army of albowtross and speartons due to poor economy management and macro ability to even attack when you should be. I hate to be blunt, but you can't argue your point when both of your extremes are like bread slices to a sandwich. "Don't attack at the start, but don't build anything that's too strong for me later." That is what your points come across as.

Quote from Dark Phoenix
Your last point is right, but no one does wonders for the community by stomping low ranked players.


Um, exactly how is this going on again? These rules, once again, are for fair play. You are free to pick your empire. You are free to remove stages you don't want to play on. You are free to win and play however you want. You're the trying to tack more cheesy rules to this and dampen everything.

Quote from Dark Phoenix
But I can send out 2 Swords (TEN SECONDS INTO THE GAME) and virtually devastate the enemy (Killing off all of the miners or your sword defense) or even destroying the statue before you can do anything about it.


No you can't. I can guarantee you, against any competent player, that will not happen once ever. If that's happening to you, and you're upset over it, you should learn a tactic to stop it, rather than bitch about it.

Quote from Dark Phoenix
It takes away the fun from this as you end the match 30 seconds in or just prolong it unnecessarily (Due to how you have to work with few miners).


If I can end the game in 30 seconds I will. Yeah, games can be fun with time, But they can also be fun with a good showcase of skill and strength in ending it swiftly. Why should I give them a second chance at life? You're telling me I should let them build what they want and attack me with it. Fuck that shit.

Quote from Dark Phoenix
It's not turtling, your just actually playing the game instead of trying to end it as soon as possible. It takes away from the fun, although what you say is true, if you focus on economy it's really hard to recover from this.


There is a time and place for turtling. Notice how I never said it's not viable. It is, but at the very start, it cuts your resources early. However, rushing is also playing the game. It exists because believe it or not, it's meant to be there. And guess what? You can counter it!

DP, this isn't to bash you and gloat how much of a better player I am. I'm trying to help you understand your fallacies in your gameplay and help you improve, so you can understand the game more and understand what we're trying to accomplish here. If you'd like, I'll even play you myself and give you advice. I'm offering that much because I don't want you to walk away frustrated about how we're not listening to you or care for what you have to say because we view you as being inferior. That's not it at all. You've thought a lot about this, and I say I'm impressed you've stuck by your ideas this long. You're the kind of person I like to see in the forums because believe it or not, it lets me explain things in much greater detail.

With all your energy for clans and wars, you should get involved in one, or start one up yourself. Outspoken players like you are a treasure.
Tecness2

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May 20, 2014 4:39 PM #1197451
DAZ, by that site, the two lines I read, and your definition, I am a scrub in every game I have ever played, for this reason. Games are meant to be fun, they are meant to be enjoyed, that's the point of the game. You should be playing to have fun, not to win. Fun should come first, winning should come second. In my opinion of course.

And Wyz, Giant massing in my opinion ruins the game. But of course, this is all the opinions of someone who doesn't play much anymore. Also, I didn't know it was physically possible to build and send out TWO swords within 10 seconds. Don't they have like a considerable build time?
Quote from IHATETHISNAME
Swords have a twelve second build time tec.

I know. Which is why getting TWO swords out in 10 seconds is, impossible, is it not?

Back on topic towards the ruleset of clan wars/preps please, for those who just slightly started drifting off(mainly me).
Nyarlathotep

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May 20, 2014 4:50 PM #1197454
Swords have a twelve second build time tec.
WyzDM
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May 20, 2014 7:22 PM #1197473
Quote from Tecness2
And Wyz, Giant massing in my opinion ruins the game.


Giant massing isn't possible unless you allow it. That's what I was getting at. It doesn't ruin the game. That's fair punishment for letting the opposing player stockpile 1500 gold every 40 seconds.
Dazzy

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May 21, 2014 8:56 AM #1197634
DAZ, by that site, the two lines I read, and your definition, I am a scrub in every game I have ever played, for this reason. Games are meant to be fun, they are meant to be enjoyed, that's the point of the game. You should be playing to have fun, not to win. Fun should come first, winning should come second. In my opinion of course.


That's a quote from a book which is based off a pro gamer in SF, and he stated at the beginning that this is a book on "Playing to win" not "playing to have fun". Nevertheless, basically it's what WyzDM said in a less tactful way. Fuck that shit.

You know, there was this revived clan called SoS. They used to be a small clan that didn't rival us. But they recruited tons of members, they have top players like Chaos who rivals ours, and they grew because they showed dedication. Sure, they dropped some preps hard in the first few with us, but they grew and fought. The rules are balanced for both sides. Your rules are bullshit Dark Pheonix. If a new clan really wants to do well they can do it, they don't need it to be biased in their favour. Notwithstanding your clear lack of understanding for the game because you moan about giant masses, about mages, and swords, about everything.

I know I'm being harsh right now, but you should give one second and take a look at exactly what you're suggesting. You're telling me this is "newbie friendly" "fair rules"? That's like, "no attack for 10 mins" but you hastily add in "but you cannot make more than 2 giants and mages are prohibited because I don't like them."
_Ai_
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May 21, 2014 9:13 AM #1197638
You know, if magikills and giants are prohibited, what are they doing in the game? They were there to be used. To be played.
WyzDM
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May 24, 2014 12:10 AM #1198405
Quote from _Ai_
You know, if magikills and giants are prohibited, what are they doing in the game? They were there to be used. To be played.


That argument isn't a good one because you could reason just about anything with that. Not saying you're wrong, however.
jerrytt
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May 24, 2014 3:27 AM #1198452
Halloween Swamp and castle are also in the game.
Nyarlathotep

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May 24, 2014 4:24 AM #1198458
Halloween and Swamp are playable. Castle is too small.