Quote from Sadko

Alright, but what if there is a spy in the midst of good low-risk guys because they pointed for success, and when Ai will get himself IN the team they will point to failure as to put Ai in a bad light? that's quite a healthy tactic i think.

The blame wouldn't be on just Ai. Like Zed said, if the mission fails it's either Ai or one of the original three, probably Smile or myself (I've stated my opinion on my I think Nish is legit, but everyone else can decide for themselves). So the suspicion should be spread over the lot of us, this could throw our top three low-risk players into doubt like the play I suggested before, but I don't think it would do as much damage. You're right, it is a legitimate tactic, but personally I don't think it is the best one.

Quote from Gaaading

I disagree. Forgive me for bringing up the screenshot issue for the third time, but seeing as those were among the certain people who were the only ones who did so it would be foolish for a spy in that group to fail it (even though the you were the third one in it and didn't post a screenshot). I would think that the Spies wouldn't want to completely eliminate one of their own so early on and the prime target would be you if said Mission did fail. Also those who would disapprove would also be suspect given that they were low-risk.

Though that debate is still up in the air since the screenshot can be forged.

But I did post a screen-shot...
But I still disagree, throwing one of the four Spies into doubt on the first mission in order to throw two low-risk players into doubt seems like a very nice trade off. It would mean the Spies are one third the way to winning and it means a whole new team would go to the next shrine. If the Spies played their cards right and got one Spy onto the mission they would fail it and be two thirds the way to winning (worst case they get two Spies on the mission and they new have three in doubt players) and perhaps new players go to the third shrine, a spy could get onto that team as well. Spies win.
If it doesn't go exactly that way, the spies then have two five player missions that they could get onto, remembering at this time 6 players have been thrown into equal amounts of doubt.

It's how I would have played if I got one Spy on the first mission.

Quote from Sadko

Alright, but what if there is a spy in the midst of good low-risk guys because they pointed for success, and when Ai will get himself IN the team they will point to failure as to put Ai in a bad light? that's quite a healthy tactic i think.

Explain why its a healthy tactic for a spy to cast suspicion on someone who is already not above suspicion in this game? If this mission fails, then the sole intention of it is to discredit one of the 3 original members, but it will also forever exclude AI from any future missions unless some major revelation takes place.

Quote from Youwishjellyfish

I actually think failing that first mission could have been the Spies best move. All three of us had very good reason to go on the mission, we all agree on that otherwise someone would have Disapproved, so if a Spy was on the mission and failed it, it would have torn down the top three low-risk players very early on in the game (along with themselves of course). So everyone would have suggested a brand new team, and I imagine the chances of getting another Spy on the team would be pretty damn high.

On the other hand, I also think this is what the Spies want us to think. The last game proved that passing the first mission means nothing in terms of the odds for the spies, they can easily pass the first mission and fuck everything else up.

I'm feeling the difference this time would be that there were two Spies on that first mission last game, burning two Spies to discredit one Knight isn't a good trade off.

What I siggested is just how I would play if I was a Spy, but it is also one of the reasons that I'm confident that the original three are all vanilla. I still doubt you could do what you did while being a Spy, I know I'm a Knight, and if Smile was a Spy I think we would have done something similar to the scenario I suggested.
But yes, I do recognize that failing the second shrine, slightly burning three Knights and one Spy is still a legitimate move, which is why I would understand people taking Smile and myself off the next four man Shrine.

Quote from Youwishjellyfish

The blame wouldn't be on just Ai. Like Zed said, if the mission fails it's either Ai or one of the original three, probably Smile or myself (I've stated my opinion on my I think Nish is legit, but everyone else can decide for themselves). So the suspicion should be spread over the lot of us, this could throw our top three low-risk players into doubt like the play I suggested before, but I don't think it would do as much damage. You're right, it is a legitimate tactic, but personally I don't think it is the best one.


But I did post a screen-shot...
But I still disagree, throwing one of the four Spies into doubt on the first mission in order to throw two low-risk players into doubt seems like a very nice trade off. It would mean the Spies are one third the way to winning and it means a whole new team would go to the next shrine. If the Spies played their cards right and got one Spy onto the mission they would fail it and be two thirds the way to winning (worst case they get two Spies on the mission and they new have three in doubt players) and perhaps new players go to the third shrine, a spy could get onto that team as well. Spies win.
If it doesn't go exactly that way, the spies then have two five player missions that they could get onto, remembering at this time 6 players have been thrown into equal amounts of doubt.

It's how I would have played if I got one Spy on the first mission.

I rescind my data on that note, though I assume as with the rest you posted later so you're not off the hook(but you already knew that). So far without further feedback from other players it's still a big toss up.

I can't wait for the results of this team to go through and to actually find out what the outcome of the Shrine mission is. Right now we are still very much in the dark, except re-using the successful members. Whoever the Seer is, I'm hoping he is going to atleast invisibly steer the outcome somewhere. I swear to God, if the Seer is Sadko or AI, the Knights are as good as dead.

Quote from Nish

I swear to God, if the Seer is Sadko or AI, the Knights are as good as dead.

What makes you say that? Are they not smart?

Quote from Gaaading

What makes you say that? Are they not smart?

I think they're both players who CAN contribute to the game if they wish to. But for this game they have contributed no original thoughts, not even subtly guiding anything. As a Knight, I would have expected one of them to PM me at least (solely as fellow Knights, not as a Seer) with strategies on how to take things forward. The Seer can't reveal his identity, but in his position as Seer, he should be a very active Knight, trying to guide the others or atleast throw his two cents in.

Quote from Nish

I think they're both players who CAN contribute to the game if they wish to. But for this game they have contributed no original thoughts, not even subtly guiding anything. As a Knight, I would have expected one of them to PM me at least (solely as fellow Knights, not as a Seer) with strategies on how to take things forward. The Seer can't reveal his identity, but in his position as Seer, he should be a very active Knight, trying to guide the others or atleast throw his two cents in.

Aren't you saying that is like a hint to the spies on who the seer is? You said, the seer must be active, try to lead the group, give his opinions...

But isn't that like, what every Knight should be doing?

Quote from _Ai_

Aren't you saying that is like a hint to the spies on who the seer is? You said, the seer must be active, try to lead the group, give his opinions...

But isn't that like, what every Knight should be doing?

Thats why I'm talking about PMs and NOT behaviour on the thread. I wouldn't expect the Seer to behave like one on the thread because the spies can find him. But I would certainly expect him to be calm and influential in PMs because he knows who the spies are and who the knights are. Even if he is forbidden from letting the other knights know that he is a Seer, he should still be using his advantage to guide the other knights instead of taking the Wait-and-See approach. I fear that the Seer in this game is more afraid of being caught out by the spies than by silently leading the Knights to victory.

Also, yes, this is also what every Knight should be doing in this thread. State an opinion, state it forcefully, dig through what everyone said and analyse it further. Knights should be doing everything in their power to encourage rational thought and observations, while spies will be doing everything in their power to sow discord. This is why the earlier game tanked for the Knights. Because AS a spy, I was masquerading as the voice of reason and taking everyone down the wrong path, and because none of the Knights were being rational, no one called me on my bullshit at all. The only two Knights who stated concrete suspicions about me, Gyo and Golden, were behaving like spies and pointing fingers and casting doubts and creating Chaos.

So thats what we need in this game. Analysis from all Knights, and the willingness to call someone on their bullshit WITHOUT pointing fingers or acting like a dick. Thats how the Knights can win the game and weed out the more chaos-spreading spies.

Quote from _Ai_

Aren't you saying that is like a hint to the spies on who the seer is? You said, the seer must be active, try to lead the group, give his opinions...

But isn't that like, what every Knight should be doing?

if the spies needed Nish to tell them that, the we might actually have a great chance of winning.

Quote from Nish

Thats why I'm talking about PMs and NOT behaviour on the thread. I wouldn't expect the Seer to behave like one on the thread because the spies can find him. But I would certainly expect him to be calm and influential in PMs because he knows who the spies are and who the knights are. Even if he is forbidden from letting the other knights know that he is a Seer, he should still be using his advantage to guide the other knights instead of taking the Wait-and-See approach. I fear that the Seer in this game is more afraid of being caught out by the spies than by silently leading the Knights to victory.

Also, yes, this is also what every Knight should be doing in this thread. State an opinion, state it forcefully, dig through what everyone said and analyse it further. Knights should be doing everything in their power to encourage rational thought and observations, while spies will be doing everything in their power to sow discord. This is why the earlier game tanked for the Knights. Because AS a spy, I was masquerading as the voice of reason and taking everyone down the wrong path, and because none of the Knights were being rational, no one called me on my bullshit at all. The only two Knights who stated concrete suspicions about me, Gyo and Golden, were behaving like spies and pointing fingers and casting doubts and creating Chaos.

So thats what we need in this game. Analysis from all Knights, and the willingness to call someone on their bullshit WITHOUT pointing fingers or acting like a dick. Thats how the Knights can win the game and weed out the more chaos-spreading spies.

It is still too early to truly make heads or tails on anyone which stunts the discussions. Seeing as the First mission went off without a hitch or even a single disapproval really leaves it a bit empty on the ways of dissecting information. Unless the Seer comes up with a subtle way to steer, I think we begrudgingly are just left with the "wait-and-see".

Quote from Gaaading

It is still too early to truly make heads or tails on anyone which stunts the discussions. Seeing as the First mission went off without a hitch or even a single disapproval really leaves it a bit empty on the ways of dissecting information. Unless the Seer comes up with a subtle way to steer, I think we begrudgingly are just left with the "wait-and-see".

The Seer needs no subtlety seeing how he isn't obliged to post his tactics in the thread. He already knows the truth, and can backtrack the truth into exposing everyone's motivation. He should be PMing active knights (he knows who they are) and atleast foreshadowing certain situations.

Again, I'm not implying that this is the ONLY tactic for the Seer. I was only responding to your question about why I lamented a possible scenario where Sadko or AI might have been the Seer, because I don't see either of them taking that initiative in this game.

jesus christ, if you people still dont suspect nish, jelly, smile and zed by now, i wonder if youve been reading at all.
im on my phone, but when i get up its detailed-explanation time

scratch that, i'm rereading the thread right now

Update

Currently waiting on 3 more voters. Have already PM-ed them.

Gyohdon, what is your reason to suspect nish, smile, and jelly?