Quote from Mark XD

you know what, all i'm seeing is bunch of guys, pweny guys, on laptops, questioning God, this is pathetic
its like i'm trying to get to feed a child carrot soup, and he refuses tp even taste it to see if they like it, he just keep pushing away the spoon away with another question

I was confirmed Lutheran after two years of twice-weekly schooling. Used to wear the robes and shit and light the candles on the altar and help with communion. For years.

You can go fuck yourself if you equate us to stubborn children and yourself to the responsible caretaker who's looking out for our best interests.

Don't worry guys, the 16 year old christian knows what he's talking about.

Quote from Mark XD

why do i have to eat it,
-its good for you
but why is it good for me
-because its a vegetable
but why do v...

Thats a terrible fucking example, if no one asked why vegetables are healthy then no-one would eat them because nobody would know if it was healthy or not because no one would be inquisitive enough to find out more about it. Curiosity is never a fault, it can change lives, families, countries and sometimes even the world. It's blindly following what the older say that holds people back from growing and developing into people that they wanted/wished to be.

Quote from Devour

I'm sad that Mark or anyone didn't respond to this. This is exactly what made me realize religion wasn't for me, and literally all the religious people I've talked to and brought this up to them, looking for an answer, have shied away from this fact.

I feel like as long as Hell exists, a loving/just God in any form or religion can't be real. All other details don't matter in the face of this.
I feel like the only reason more people haven't realized this is because most people don't have empathy for all the billions of people who have to go to Hell. They only care about themselves going to Heaven, and it's easy to write off everyone else as unworthy and that they had their chance.

I believe only true evil goes to hell, those with an internal conflict in the end go into a "limbo state" and those who are for the most part good go to heaven.

I cannot fathom the concept that "all atheists, gays, and people of other religions go straight to hell"

I have too many friends from those categories that are all good people would be sent to an eternal punishment for believing different from a religion that was created by young simple, closed minded humans just beginning to understand existence.

Life is a trial, a challenge, a test. To see despite where we come from if we are capable of good. Capable of greatness. Capable of no matter how bad the situation you are born into you can still be capable of good.

No matter how much or a wealthy situation you are in you are willing to give, no matter how much poverty you are in you are capable of compassion, no matter how bad people treat you, you are capable of forgiveness.

I believe that the harder your time was on earth and you still made it through life being good to others, the better it will be in your afterlife.

Quote from Mark XD

you know what, all i'm seeing is bunch of guys, pweny guys, on laptops, questioning God, this is pathetic
its like i'm trying to get to feed a child carrot soup, and he refuses tp even taste it to see if they like it, he just keep pushing away the spoon away with another question

why do i have to eat it,
-its good for you
but why is it good for me
-because its a vegetable
but why do v...

>believes in a religion whose history is tarnished with murder, war, rape, violence, treachery, sadism, etc and whose deity is literally worse than Hitler
>equates this religion to a healthy food


My parents and all my family members are christians. I went to a christian elementary school, and we used to have regular christian seminars in high school. I live in the Philippines, a predominantly christian country. All my friends are christians. I used to be a christian. But here I am, now eating the body of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on my plate, drinking his blood in this coke bottle through a straw, knowing that they're all wrong and, after death, will go and drink stale beer in hell while I enjoy my tasty beer and jacking off to a stripper in heaven.

Quote from Devour

I'm sad that Mark or anyone didn't respond to this. This is exactly what made me realize religion wasn't for me, and literally all the religious people I've talked to and brought this up to them, looking for an answer, have shied away from this fact.

I feel like as long as Hell exists, a loving/just God in any form or religion can't be real. All other details don't matter in the face of this.
I feel like the only reason more people haven't realized this is because most people don't have empathy for all the billions of people who have to go to Hell. They only care about themselves going to Heaven, and it's easy to write off everyone else as unworthy and that they had their chance.

I acknowledged it. If you bring this up to religious people they can't answer it, while if you bring it to barely religious people (me for example) they'll agree with exile. I dont see God as a loving figure. He's just someone so powerful who can do what he wants and we can't do anything about it. Shrug.

Anyways I'm mobile now. Ayyy.

I do have to say it's unfair to expect Mark to react rationally to religion being questioned though. I was the same way, and raised in a strong Christian family my whole life. Even thinking to question whether or not God is real is terrifying and your brain just stops itself in its tracks. It goes against your entire life and what all your most respected peers say and believe in. Not to mention the fear of Hell is scary.

But it doesn't change that if Hell exists, God doesn't

Quote from _Ai_

I dont see God as a loving figure. He's just someone so powerful who can do what he wants and we can't do anything about it. Shrug.

In all religions he's said to be a loving figure though. If he's actually not, then they must be wrong :p

Maybe you'll find peace one day. The best way to live is the way that you believe is right. If you're pretending to follow a lifestyle because of fear of the consequences, and not because you actually are that person, don't you think that a god would see right through the act? I think that if people just try to live good lives, any deity kind enough to create a Heaven for humans to live in would let good people in with them.

Yes Devour, exactly.

@devour, ok, i'll respond to it,
and i'll quote scriptures to
hell was created for satan and his angel, hell wasn't created for man, satan corrupted man with sin, and we deid, so because we then died in sin, we could not enter in to heaven. God does not count time as we do, a day to good is a thousand years to us, man has since live the approximate age of 120 years since the change/new testament because sin was great on the eart and Jesus had to come a stop it.
roman 6:23for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternel life through jesus christ our lord.
roman 5:12 wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

then Jesus brought forgiveness by deing for us
roman 5:21 that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might the grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jeses christ our lord.

but lets not forget the love of God, e loves us and would never do all those bad thing to us, it is satan.
Roman 8:18 fro i rekon that the suffering of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
you see, "not worthy to be compared with" so stop questioning God.

romans 8:24 for we are saved by hope; but hope that is seen is not hope; for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
"8:25 but if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,...
John :16 for god so love the world that he gaave his only begotten Son, that whosoever belieth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
john 15:13 greater love have no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends

Quote from Mark XD

you know what, all i'm seeing is bunch of guys, pweny guys, on laptops, questioning God, this is pathetic
its like i'm trying to get to feed a child carrot soup, and he refuses tp even taste it to see if they like it, he just keep pushing away the spoon away with another question

why do i have to eat it,
-its good for you
but why is it good for me
-because its a vegetable
but why do v...

Quote from Mark XD

@devour, ok, i'll respond to it,
and i'll quote scriptures to
hell was created for satan and his angel, hell wasn't created for man, satan corrupted man with sin, and we deid, so because we then died in sin, we could not enter in to heaven. God does not count time as we do, a day to good is a thousand years to us, man has since live the approximate age of 120 years since the change/new testament because sin was great on the eart and Jesus had to come a stop it.
roman 6:23for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternel life through jesus christ our lord.
roman 5:12 wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

then Jesus brought forgiveness by deing for us
roman 5:21 that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might the grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jeses christ our lord.

but lets not forget the love of God, e loves us and would never do all those bad thing to us, it is satan.
Roman 8:18 fro i rekon that the suffering of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
you see, "not worthy to be compared with" so stop questioning God.

romans 8:24 for we are saved by hope; but hope that is seen is not hope; for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
"8:25 but if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,...
John :16 for god so love the world that he gaave his only begotten Son, that whosoever belieth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
john 15:13 greater love have no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends

Thank you for not refuting any of the points logically and throwing a tantrum (or quoting scripture that only goes around in circles and clears nothing up), thus automatically conceding defeat for your argument and your repulsive interpretation of God.

Quote from _Ai_

I guess I can't really understand how atheists think just yet I guess. I don't really see why are you eager to turn people with beliefs to people without them. Let them be. If they don't harm you, don't harm them lol.

Whats with you recently? From that earlier 'procreation' comment a few days ago to this, you've made some bewildering statements. Are you thinking before you speak?

a) No one is here turning anyone. We're simply asking for logical statements and we're not getting them. I'm not saying you have stop believing in anything. I'm just asking you as a human being with the capacity to think to admit that you're disengaging yourself from that capacity when you choose to believe that fairy tales are real.

b) Lets say there was a football team called "The XYZ Team" who lost every match. Every single match. Suddenly, a friend of yours on a forum pops up and says "XYZ is the best football team in the world". Wouldn't you ask him WHY he thinks that? Or at least, I have no problem with people supporting XYZ but you must be open to criticism if you choose to support something that has no logical or rational basis. Why is it that EVERYTHING in life must be based on logic EXCEPT religion? Give me an answer. My allegiance is not to athiesm but to the fundamental realities of conversation. If someone tells me something foolish, how is it 'conversion' on my part if I point out that it is foolish?

c) People like Mark XD could one day grow up to have control over other people in a job or in life. Do you not want to point these things out to them now itself so that hopefully when they develop a faculty for reasoning as they grow up, they may ponder these things? He is clearly a victim of some kind of family or pastoral propoganda. It is because of people like YOU who don't want to speak to them and reason with them, that they grow up to be the kind of person who votes for Donald Trump.

d) It is idiotic to say "don't talk to them about religion as long as they don't harm you". By the time it gets to a stage where they DO harm you, its too late to talk to them. So of course you must talk about this to them before they get to the harming stage. I can't reason with Mark XD when he is an adult and he is forcing this tripe down the throats of his own kids and family, so we might as well at least point out certain logical flaws now.

Quote from Zman

- I don't know who this smile is, but it sounds like that guy at the party who walks in the door and yells something random that is somewhat on topic and then leaves.

We have lots of people like that and Smile is their patron saint. Also, I don't know why debates prevent coexistence. I think they enhance it.

Quote from Exile

You can go fuck yourself

Wow, is this the first time I've seen you swear in an argument?

Quote from devi

Thats a terrible fucking example, if no one asked why vegetables are healthy then no-one would eat them because nobody would know if it was healthy or not because no one would be inquisitive enough to find out more about it. Curiosity is never a fault, it can change lives, families, countries and sometimes even the world. It's blindly following what the older say that holds people back from growing and developing into people that they wanted/wished to be.

Mark XD wants you to eat vegetables without examining them, studying them or discerning their qualities.

Quote from _Ai_

Yes Devour, exactly.

You're contradicting yourself now. He told you not to believe in something purely out of fear, which you admitted to doing earlier and your response now is "Exactly".

@Not-Nish not debate in general. But how it can lead to separation if someone makes it personal.

Quote from Zman

@Not-Nish not debate in general. But how it can lead to separation if someone makes it personal.

Yes. It can if the person takes it in the wrong spirit. But is that the kind of person you want to be friends with in the first place? Someone who insists to you that the Sky is green even when you point the sky out to them and say 'its blue'? I mean, after a point, you'd give up on them, but would you mourn their loss if the debate breaks off the friendship?

Hmmmmmmm religion... Guess I'll throw in my two cents.

Actually no, you guys are scary and my battery is low. I'll be lurking ;)

And holy shit so many people on the thread right now >:O

Quote from Bluvarth

Hmmmmmmm religion... Guess I'll throw in my two cents.

Actually no, you guys are scary and my battery is low. I'll be lurking ;)

And holy shit so many people on the thread right now >:O

I'd hate to be thought of as 'scary' at a time like this. I honestly encourage you to express your opinion, its nothing personal, its just an exchange and clash of ideas that sometimes get heated up. We'll go back to making fun of each other's moms in no time. For example, I still love Ai.

Quote from Not_Nish

Mark XD wants you to eat vegetables without examining them, studying them or discerning their qualities.

no no no meng, thats not tru, God wants you to eat vegetables, so you will live, satan wants you to examine it forever, so you will never get an answer and die of starvation and go to hell
forgive me, but i'm question your intelligence nish

He edited his post, i was agreeing to his upper half of the post.

Not to say i dont agree with the rest mind you. My thoughts arent really strong; if i think someone is right, then i'll agree.

Also in case you didnt notice, the precreation comment had an invisi-text under it; i thought it meant sex. Harhar.

It kinda seemed to me that you were mocking me for not being an atheist even when i'm not religious. So i assumed you wanted me to become one, hence the post. It seems like you didnt intend it to be like that, so it's aight. A blunder on my part.

Cant really address c and d in your post. You're probably right, but I feel it's not right to do so. It's like saying everything he knows is a lie... it would be a crushing realization, no?