Okay, fair enough. I know you've been doing that and I think it's great. Which is why I'm confused why you think the ex-mods who are still here shouldn't be part of what's being discussed in the moderator group. We always had that privilege, if you want to take it away that's one thing, but you haven't even given us a chance. If you're unwilling to do that, I think we've done enough to deserve a reason that doesn't involve sweeping generalizations about our unwillingness to change. I don't even know where you got that idea.
First of all, the day we officially announced the merge, there were a few people from the existing SP community that reacted... poorly. Poorly is an understatement, but I'll be nice about this. Specifically, when the topic of changes came up, the general response from these members was that nothing was going to change that they didn't want changed, and that's how it's going to be. Some of these members are also on that list of who would become part of that ex-mod group, so I already know how that's going to go, because they've already had a chance. The chance was presented when we opened the floor for the opinions of SP users about the merge and we were met with the small shitstorm that resulted from it.
So my prejudice is not unfounded or baseless. I've been around the block a few times to know these types of people and how they react, and I've come to anticipate it. I lurked here for months before the merge and picked out the people that I thought were going to cause a problem simply by how they acted, and I was pretty much spot on. I'm not making sweeping generalizations, I'm picking up on how you present yourselves and how you treat other members on this forum. This whole argument over my hesitation to re-implement an old feature of the forum is pretty solid evidence of how you specifically are acting this way. I simply see the kind of overreaction I received as a sign that you don't like that I'd like to change how this particular part of the forum is done.
Let me clarify about my stance: I am perfectly willing to discuss changes and listen to concerns and requests. I don't think it's necessary to allow specific members access to the mod forum to discuss these things, as the things being discussed currently in the mod forum are only to do with rules and a code of conduct. I don't think ex-mods need to have immediate input on this, because they aren't the ones who will be upholding the proposed rules. When the current mods (which INCLUDE older SP members who are doing a good job of representing their people, mind you) and I come to a common ground about an issue, we will then put it into action. When that happens, it's now public and anyone who has a problem with it from there can voice their opinion and further changes can be made if necessary. This seems fair to me.
Now, if I DID let ex-mods discuss these changes to rules in the sub-forum, and I was met with the same kind of response I've received from this small topic for every issue, how do you think that would go? I would spend most of my time arguing my brains out trying to get you to see where I'm coming from and understand the merits behind the proposed change, only to be met with accusations that I don't know what's good for this community like the ex-mods do. However, you seem like a respectable person overall. Perhaps I could ignore this situation and give you the benefit of the doubt about your ability to discuss changes civilly without resorting to the previously mentioned argument.
Now I want you to think about this from my point of view. I have only decided this based on my interactions with you in this thread, on this subject. I see you have the capacity to be aggressive and insulting, but I also see that you can reflect on your choices and refrain from that behavior in the future. This lets me make an informed decision about whether or not I would trust you to see the mod forum and have input. But you're ONE member out of a pretty long list of members that would be added to this ex-mods group. I don't know jack shit about any of the other members like I do with you now. So perhaps you would be a great addition to the discussion, and I've never said that you definitely wouldn't be, but that doesn't mean the other users would be too. I have to judge whether or not you would be an asset to discussions based on how you act and present yourself generally on the forums. I would have to go through each member and see whether or not I would want them to have that sort of privilege based on either previous experiences or by looking at their posts. Ultimately (and I'm saying this after glancing at a few of the names), I would reject a few users from being in said group, which would then be unfair to acknowledge some users but not others as ex-mods. The ex-mods group would then become something more of a special ex-SP members who are respectable group.
So I am now faced with a number of things:
1) Create the group as it was, add all the ex-mods, deal with the inevitable reactions of those who would abuse that position
2) Create the group as it was, exclude certain people, deal with their reaction to being excluded and try to show them why they don't deserve to have input
3) Create the group as a title ONLY, add all the ex-mods, deal with possible elitism or complaints from other users
4) Don't create the group, deal with those that feel like they're missing out on something that hasn't been around for a while
I'd rather, at this point, do 3 or 4.
Hopefully I'm making it clear by now that this isn't really the case at all.
Maybe not in your case, but I would be surprised if none of the other people pushing for this didn't want it simply because it would make them stand out in a crowd.
Aaaaand now I'm starting to wonder why you think you had any reasonable basis to think I'm being disrespectful, when you're going to spout bullshit like this.
Oh I don't know, the parts where you explicitly implied I was a narcissist, that I was delusional, and told me I was being dismissive despite that I'm doing my best to be someone who pays attention to the requests being made are all pretty disrespectful. I only react the same way I'm being treated.
In case you didn't actually look through my post history, I just did for you.
Now, correct me
if I'm wrong,
but these posts from me in the Treaty Zone thread seem to imply the
exact opposite of what you're saying.
This is completely unfair and disrespectful. I am not saying "Oh b-but it was here before and I want it back", fuck that, I'm saying I have proof that
directly contradicts your justifications. It's hard to see you as an unbiased, objective leader when you can create this generalized image of me that's the exact opposite of how I've acted since you've gotten here. How does that even happen?
Seems more like something's being taken away just because nobody's bothered fixing something that was lost during the reset.
I have a status that was stripped from me and the rest of the ex-mods just because the forum got hacked, and nobody's fixed it yet.
We used to have a certain privilege and now we don't
Seems to me like that's what you were saying. You're being pretty argumentative about it, which is the opposite of how you claim you're acting.
Oh, please, you hardly started this off calmly and respectfully, so don't expect the same from me. I asked why it hasn't been put back and your reason for it was basically "We don't know the ex-mods, but we get the feeling that they're uncooperative, so.. nah". Considering the posts I linked to above, and the fact that these changes are a modification of something this forum has always had, I think my response was justified.
Uh. I said "I don't think we're rewarding pre-merge ex-mods with anything." How is that not calm or respectful? I didn't say, "Yeah you'd like to be a fukkn purple-named faggot wouldn't you. well eat shit fucker." After you protested, I then simply stated my reasoning, because you seemed unsatisfied with my answer. I still wasn't being offensive or angry. I only started reacting negatively when I felt you were being unjustly offensive. Corrupting a summary of what I said doesn't serve as proof I started off being an asshole.
Yeah, I agree completely. This forum sucked. It had nothing to do with the ex mods having access to the moderator forum, though, that's all I meant.
My response to that was more in regards to, "The forum ran fine for the better part of a decade without you."
I just want to help, and think my input is still worth something. You're basically telling me it's not, when I've done nothing to demonstrate that. So stop acting like a damn victim, I have every right to be upset when you're taking something from me because of a biased, incorrect view of how I feel about this merge.
What the fuck.
You can either respectfully discuss the changes with Stone and I (because there will ALWAYS be an opportunity to do so, regardless of status)
HOPEFULLY I'VE CLARIFIED MYSELF ABOVE.
