With lag it also makes the game a lot more luck based and much easier to make mistakes. For example: short map OvO on castle, you put your archer ahead of your sword, their sword chases your archer, your archer doesn't move in time, your archer dies...was that because you played badly? No. Sure you *could* have avoided it, but even the slightest error in lag can cost you the game. On the other hand with 0 ping, where both sides can properly micro, it's a lot harder to lose just from a tiny mistake.

Quote from 59saintdane

With lag it also makes the game a lot more luck based and much easier to make mistakes. For example: short map OvO on castle, you put your archer ahead of your sword, their sword chases your archer, your archer doesn't move in time, your archer dies...was that because you played badly? No. Sure you *could* have avoided it, but even the slightest error in lag can cost you the game. On the other hand with 0 ping, where both sides can properly micro, it's a lot harder to lose just from a tiny mistake.

THIS

Also I can't disagree that a player can lose to bad skill, but like 59Saint said, you can't disagree that shit becomes a lot harder to do when lag spikes in.

For instance have you ever had an even/even match where you were lagging so bad, your commands delayed by 5 seconds, while the opponent does not lag at all? Tell me how one would win in such a scenario (besides lagout and luck.)

Quote from 59saintdane

With lag it also makes the game a lot more luck based and much easier to make mistakes. For example: short map OvO on castle, you put your archer ahead of your sword, their sword chases your archer, your archer doesn't move in time, your archer dies...was that because you played badly? No. Sure you *could* have avoided it, but even the slightest error in lag can cost you the game. On the other hand with 0 ping, where both sides can properly micro, it's a lot harder to lose just from a tiny mistake.

I will not disagree. However I wasn't saying that with ten second delay it's alright. Of course with lots of lag, it becomes much harder. I was saying that without lag (maybe slight lag) people just complain about it when they lose. If the delay isn't that serious, you can't just say that's the reason you lost.

@terry Of course I had games with 5 second delay, sometimes more. And it seems like everyone thinks I'm saying people lose because of bad skill all the time. When it comes to 2k people, it's micro and macro MISTAKES. And sometimes tactics. Not just skill.

Quote from nutsophast

I will not disagree.

You've been saying that the last few posts, what's the point of even replying if you're just gonna say "I agree with you" ?

Quote from nutsophast

@terry Of course I had games with 5 second delay, sometimes more. And it seems like everyone thinks I'm saying people lose because of bad skill all the time. When it comes to 2k people, it's micro and macro MISTAKES. And sometimes tactics. Not just skill.

That's a fair point. When you lose, it's always because of your mistakes, but lag makes those mistakes a lot easier to make and a lot less dependent on skill.

@rain Look at dane's reply. He's doing what you're criticizing me for doing. He doesn't disagree, yet he still has something to say. Still got a problem?

@59saintdane Fair enough, what you said was true. You have fair and solid points so I won't argue any further, I guess we'll stop here.