Quote from DragonArcherZ

For the record pumu, albows can see situational usage OvO. You underestimate the cost efficiency and tankiness of the unit.

Yea. I mean a good marrow mass can deal the cards though in OvC. :3

Quote from lewislewis

Yup theirs a key difference between
I'm crap with cycloids buff them,
I always get beat by cycloids nerf them
and a genuine problem with the unit
just because your crap with a unit does not mean its under powered
or a unit that you always get beat by is over powered

Exactly, hence why there's been so much theory crafting here to demonstrate that the problem is actually there and not just people playing badly.

Melee-while-moving really would be better and I believe my input carries some weight.

Reason:

No ranged

lol... that basically sums it up. If loids w/o 'nado can't attack anything except air units at very close range, they at least should not have to stop while doing so.

*******************EDIT:*******************
Take nothing away from the main content of this post; the following is just to suggest a couple of spells that might be cool for Cycloid:

-freeze (3-second freeze) (still doesn't work on Giants, big Charrog)

-lightning storm (5 bolts of lightning attack random enemy units even after loid dies, (like dragon))

-speed boost (5-second, 1.25x speed increase (including attack speed (basically like rage w/o damage increase)))

I think the first 2 are cool. Speed-boost probably unnecessary as long as they melee while moving, just throwing it out there since it was mentioned above. Also it doesn't add to the theme of the game and the first 2 do, heavily.

P.S. If any empire is OP it should be Ele (and basically Chaos too with only 5 free plays) and balance should be based off of making sure Order can fairly compete with these 2 at the top-level so it isn't p2w.

I think cycloids pausing while attacking would actually make for better gameplay, it gives the opponent several different ways to run away from cycloids that way.

Of course gameplay experience may not always align with gameplay balance.

If any empire should be op it should be order so that the game is never p2w?

What happened to speed boost being just a bad idea to throw around?

Btw rage doesn't increase dmg...

Empires shouldn't be OP, esp. since Chaos is already too strong at top level

Wait don't bring up the chaos op debate!!!!!!!!!

The world will end!!!1

Quote from MustRemainSecret

Melee-while-moving really would be better and I believe my input carries some weight.

Reason:

No ranged

lol... that basically sums it up. If loids w/o 'nado can't attack anything except air units at very close range, they at least should not have to stop while doing so.

*******************EDIT:*******************
Take nothing away from the main content of this post; the following is just to suggest a couple of spells that might be cool for Cycloid:

-freeze (3-second freeze) (still doesn't work on Giants, big Charrog)

-lightning storm (5 bolts of lightning attack random enemy units even after loid dies, (like dragon))

-speed boost (5-second, 1.25x speed increase (including attack speed (basically like rage w/o damage increase)))

I think the first 2 are cool. Speed-boost probably unnecessary as long as they melee while moving, just throwing it out there since it was mentioned above. Also it doesn't add to the theme of the game and the first 2 do, heavily.

P.S. If any empire is OP it should be Ele (and basically Chaos too with only 5 free plays) and balance should be based off of making sure Order can fairly compete with these 2 at the top-level so it isn't p2w.

Im sorry but no. Just no.

Speed research is all we need tbh.

Speed research is not necessary. Cycloid is a spellcaster and therefore not inherently meant to attack (you should know this already) not to mention its melee is WAY powerful. If you give it lightning storm, it handles wings a lot better and actually keeps in line with the theme of the game.

Quote from MustRemainSecret

P.S. If any empire is OP it should be Ele (and basically Chaos too with only 5 free plays) and balance should be based off of making sure Order can fairly compete with these 2 at the top-level so it isn't p2w.

Yea guess what they pay 2 win accusation idiots are not near top player usually.
It does make some sense for the Payed for empires to be slightly stronger.
But then again the people that play this game will blast you for it.
It is p2w to everybody but the top players that are capable of dealing with it.

shud be tutorials / links(with se community's help) to fiting chaos+ele in se

Quote from MustRemainSecret

Speed research is not necessary. Cycloid is a spellcaster and therefore not inherently meant to attack (you should know this already) not to mention its melee is WAY powerful. If you give it lightning storm, it handles wings a lot better and actually keeps in line with the theme of the game.

Uh cycloids were designed to be AA with support capabilities. Supposed to be Ele's answer to wing, but...

Cycloids can catch up to wings just fine and their melee attack is incredible. Given that Cycloid is a spellcaster, it needs something to deal with kiting in a creative way that will further develop its character and add to the theme of the game.

With that said, adding a speed boost is about as uncreative an idea as there can be. In fact, it is highly doubtful that there is a less creative way to solve this problem - if anyone can think of one, prove us wrong, won't you? :)

Hurricane/Tornado 2 with higher damage + wider radius adding further air+ground support will solve the inherent problem with loids which is not being able to deal with wings kiting. Wings will have difficulty with fully-upgraded loids, so it will be necessary to have ground units to absorb damage; PROBLEM SOLVED.

OP:

so... i recently watched a few replays of a user using ele well enough to take the lead and i watch as he loses two cycloids to a group of 5 wings.

The problem i see:
cycloids cant do shit vs wings even 3 cycloids fail to cripple a group of wings.
4 cycloids or more is ridiculous because at that point your ground force is almost nothing. <-(not with "Hurricane" adding wider ground support than Tornado)
Cycloid tornado is ok as it is i really have no problem with this support spell aside from the fact that it has an odd hitbox that usually only allows super packed units to be hit almost similar to the marrowkai hell fist spell which i think vs wings isnt the greatest thing as they tend to spread out.
Health of cycloids is debatable as it helps the other player in some cases but in reality enables the other player to shoot a cycloid down without even thinking about it if not used in a hit and run fashion. which in this use disables the ele player from utilizing its melee. which tends to make it as useful as a v in most scenarios.
cycloids speed is perfectly fine.

Wings will NEED ground support to absorb higher damage +/ wider radius. Therefore; wingmass will be less effective and essentially balanced.

We have mentioned multiple times that consideration must be made concerning stats, to ensure balance. Therefore, don't jump to conclusions.

Summary/TL;DR:

Give Cycloids Tornado on spawn and add Tornado 2/Hurricane research.

-> air+water = 750+100 Cycloid that can only melee air and shield 1 unit?

the tornado 2 idea sounds like the best thing that has come up. maybe slightly increased damage and radius

Albows can really wreck, especially with blazing bolts.They're deadly when in groups, especially with burn damage.

i personally see other options as being more effective aside from albows