So this is an interesting topic that came to my attention recently. It started with this video, and the collection of comments that followed. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=428026624033021

In watching this video, the important thing is to ignore her blatant inability to articulate herself, and focus on what she's actually saying.

So the question is this:

We all know African Americans have African ancestry, do you think that their similarities cease there, or extend further? Is there any merit in the argument that African Americans share more commonalities with Africans than any other races do, aside from ethnic origin?

I argue that their similarities essentially end there. For all intents and purposes, African Americans are not Africans. They do not share the same culture, traditions, languages or values. Most African Americans know little to nothing about Africa, nor have they ever been to Africa or have any family in Africa. Considering that the majority of forced migration to the US occurred in the period of 1600-1840, most African Americans don't even have great great great great grandparents that originated in Africa.

I for one have Irish and British great grandparents. Yet I would never consider myself Irish or British, knowing nothing about their cultures or traditions, and having never been there. And that's a fairly mild comparison (comparing an English speaking Australian to an English speaking Brit/Irish) in contrast with comparing African Americans and Africans, who don't even speak the same language. I hazard to guess how many African Americans could trace their origins back to the correct country within Africa (of which there are 47 countries with vastly different cultures, which brings up the question, is it meaningless to identify as 'African', when as an umbrella term it means so little), much less their tribe.

An analogy. You're aware that 400 years ago, your ancestors migrated to Australia from somewhere in Asia, but you don't know what part of Asia. You've lived in Australia for your entire life, and your family has no cultural connection to Asia. You can't identify the country you once originated from, nor do you know any of the cultures, speak any of the language, or have anything in common with Asians other than your physical appearance and genetic bloodline. Are you Australian, Asian or Asian-Australian. If you do consider yourself "Asian-Australian", what significance does that have when each country in Asia is so vastly different?

It depends on who you are too. Italian-Americans do often see their roots back to their motherlands.

As you pointed out, Africa is not one country. So they may not see themselves as Zimbabwean Americans or Nigerian Americans or Kenyan Americans. But the physiology and distinct difference in personal appearance makes it very difficult to shake off that connection. It isn't just the Africans there, it would also be the Chinese Americans and Asian Americans who find it hard.

Of course in an ideal world they'd all just be Americans. But we'll have to discuss whether the real world operates that way.

The primary difference I find between Asian Americans and African Americans is that Asian Americans embrace their culture. They know precisely where they're from, and their families strongly embrace that culture. They maintain a strong cultural connection. That just doesn't exist with African Americans.

Quote from Cronos

The primary difference I find between Asian Americans and African Americans is that Asian Americans embrace their culture. They know precisely where they're from, and their families strongly embrace that culture. They maintain a strong cultural connection. That just doesn't exist with African Americans.

They've gone ahead and made their own subculture. The emphasis on jewelery, swagger, male dominance and preference for women with large bottoms are all still as African as it gets. My point is that just because they have lost touch with their original culture, it shouldn't deprive them of the right to see themselves as having originated from another geographical location (which they are reminded of every second because of how strikingly different they look from the mainstream population of the land).

Every culture in the world has a preference for male dominance and women with large bottoms. It's not about depriving anyone of the right to recognise their geographical origin. It's about recognising the point at which you're basically no longer African, you're just American. We all originated from Africa at some point or another. Sub cultures emerged, and we stopped considering ourselves "African". (well we didn't really, as we weren't capable of thinking like that at the time, but you get the idea).

I don't consider them the same all. Even most African-Americans don't. I was one of 3 white guys that worked at one of my previous jobs, and most of the black guys hated, not dis-liked or didn't identify with, hated Africans (referring to the Somalians, Nigerians, etc moving to the US lately). That threw me at first because I was like, but you're black... you guys always band together, what going on here? And usually the response was something along the lines of "Blacks and Africans are different."

And they are vastly different. Their culture is different. Their language is different. Their believes and ethics are different. The security company I work for went on a Somali hiring binge last year in an attempt to get more Somalis into law enforcement in Minneapolis. Typically Somalis (from my observations, at least) expect everything to just be handed to them here, because this is America, the land of dreams or whatever.

I originally typed out a much longer post but I thought I'd trim it down to this before getting branded a racist.

Quote from Cronos

So the question is this:
We all know African Americans have African ancestry, do you think that their similarities cease there, or extend further? Is there any merit in the argument that African Americans share more commonalities with Africans than any other races do, aside from ethnic origin?

I think the entire concept is relative. Although to me, being "African" is more dependent on geography than heritage and race.

I'm have lots of white South Africans as friends, I consider them Africans just as much as I consider my non-white South African friends. They were born here and grew up here in the African continent. My white friends will mostly either have Dutch or British ancestry, but does that mean I should call them or their family line Dutch-Africans or British-Africans?

Because if so, then what do I call myself? I can't classify myself if I choose to see being African as something from my heritage alone. That would mean that no non-black person could be considered African.

I'm a coloured. It's a term used differently in SA than in the rest of the world.
Coloured's are sort of like their own race in this country, even though the rest of the world would call it mixed race.
This isn't the case though, because mixed race people usually have close ancestry/lineage from differing races, usually a great grandparent or something closer to the parent.

Coloureds became their own race because a bunch of people, most likely originally mixed race (from Blacks/Malays and British or Dutch whites as the parents) only had children with each other. It may have started with a generation of coloureds whose parents were a mixture of white and black/brown, but it progressed to the point where a generation of coloureds was born from other generations of coloureds.

This is most likely because of the Apartheid regime where people in South African were classed and placed together based on skin colour.

Anyways, my lineage isn't exactly hugely favouring to either White European or Black African ancestry. I'm literally a refined mix. This really affects my perception of what it is to be African. So to me, being African boils down to being born here, and growing up under the diverse cultures in Africa. Maybe others in other African countries will be in higher support of Pan Africanism saying that Africa belongs to the black man. If this is the case, then I doubt that I am any more african than a white person living here. For any influence of black genes in my ancestry, there is mostly likely an equal influence of white or malay genes.

(P.S Thanks for inviting me to the thread Cronos, oh and just because I can: Here's what my skin tone would look like: http://www.color-hex.com/color/c4874d
There are many very variations of coloured skin tones depending on the influence of grandparents and parents etc. For example, My best friend (coloured) is lighter skinned than me, he's probably only slightly darker than Joseph Gordon Levitt.

Sorry to say but the term African American sounds like you have you dual citizenship... What if a black person moves from Jamaica to the US he has no roots to Africa, and what if a black person moves from Brittan to the US I don't think he wants to be called African American when he is actually a Britt... The US gets so hung up on being politically correct when they can't see that it's not correct in the slightest... People from south Africa are white (not all but a good amount) that makes them African American but holy shit you call him African American instead of Caucasian and everyone makes a huge deal about it because he isn't black... It's easier and more accurate just to say black because you don't know where they are actually from and no one in Africa will call a black from America an African American, they will say American because that's where you were born and raised

A little about me. My parents were both born and raised in Vietnam and moved to Australia. I grew up with Vietnamese food, had the hard core values beaten into me, attended weekly Vietnamese school and occasionally went to the temple. I felt that having this "history" somewhat allows me to embrace the label Asian more easily. But I was raised in Australia, learned how to speak the language and part of Australian culture (whatever that is) seeped into me; therefore I also identify with being Australian. With the combination of my parents origin and where and how I was raised, I can say that I identify with being an Asian-Australian.

But then I think, will I raise my offspring with the same traditions. Probably not. There begins the second dilution, which over time will bring the branches in the family tree I created further away from the source i.e. my parents. There will be no more Asian-Australians in the upcoming generations; just Australians. That’s how I would classify it. Australia is a diverse mixing pot where different cultures and ethnicities collide to produce something completely different. I don’t think you can keep track of it all. Over time you end up with the average that you call Australian. And perhaps as a result of sub-cultures you can get sub-labels.

Quote from I Pwn3d Jo0

People from south Africa are white (not all but a good amount)

LOL.
White people are definitely a minority in South Africa. Hugely outnumbered by Coloureds, Indians and Blacks.
Although racial population numbers dependent on the region/states within South Africa though.

The only people who can actually answer this are African Americans.

It seems very pretentious and high and mighty to me, for us to say that they can identify themselves as African only if they have something culturally or historically intrinsic in their families to identify themselves as African Americans. Saying that their are eventually a subculture is vastly simplifying how their identities are shaped on a day to day basis. History is taught to them in schools. The word nigger is used often. Their entire existence is defined in social and political spaces as people from Africa. They watch people who look like them on TV everyday, from Africa. It is very very hard to completely shake off your roots when you know that your ancestors were dragged here in chains. They may not know about African culture, but they do know that.

Quote from Nish

The only people who can actually answer this are African Americans.

It seems very pretentious and high and mighty to me, for us to say that they can identify themselves as African only if they have something culturally or historically intrinsic in their families to identify themselves as African Americans. Saying that their are eventually a subculture is vastly simplifying how their identities are shaped on a day to day basis. History is taught to them in schools. The word nigger is used often. Their entire existence is defined in social and political spaces as people from Africa. They watch people who look like them on TV everyday, from Africa. It is very very hard to completely shake off your roots when you know that your ancestors were dragged here in chains. They may not know about African culture, but they do know that.

I've heard first hand from many African-Americans, that they (as a general group) not only do not identify with Africans, but they dislike them. Their heritage from the pre-slavery days, doesn't seem to matter much to them, they typically focus on the days of slavery during the 1800s, and the inequality of the 1900s.

I've got a theory on why most African-Americans share their attitude toward 'non-blacks' and Africans, but thats a whole different subject.

So you're telling me these blacks want to be known as just 'Americans' and want to be integrated into mainstream white culture?

No, they've developed their own culture here. Blacks in America are fairly unique in behaviour and attitude compared to their counterparts in other countries such as the UK, Australia, etc. This is what my theory tries to explain.

Quote from Nish

So you're telling me these blacks want to be known as just 'Americans' and want to be integrated into mainstream white culture?

Not that we want to be integrated into white culture. But being called something that you're not is definitely annoying.

If we looked back several generations to define one's ethnicity then things would get very complicated. I'm sure that almost everyone, when you trace their ancestry back over 200 years, will have multiple unnecessary ethnic groups tacked on before the "-American" or wherever else they live in. It does not mean that they identify with those groups. Most likely, they will not.

If not even my Great Grandparents came from Africa, why would you call me African? Just call me Black. Contrary to what media and many Whites seem to believe, "Black" is not an offensive word.