Legal Paternal Surrender
Started by: Preserve | Replies: 19 | Views: 3,368
Zed2Posts: 11,572
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View Profile This part annoys me though.
Why would forcing unnecessary hoops onto men be fair? .
Ignoring the latter half of your post which is already being addressed, I agree with you on this point. I think the guy wrote it mainly to nail down the fact that he wasn't some kind of men's-rights activist.
Obviously the point was that a lot of more conservative places introduce rules solely designed to make abortions as difficult as possible for women, and perhaps these rules would be removed if they applied to men too. The problem with this thinking, of course, is that if the rules are only there because of sexism then the sexist legislators are never going to apply those rules for men. And if the rules are there for other reasons then applying them to men isn't going to get them removed.
Skeletonxf2Posts: 2,706
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View Profile Let's lay down some thought experiments then.
1. One night stand, man thinks woman is on the pill or something but doesn't ask and then the woman wants to have her baby and the man didn't sign up for this
2. One night stand, man notices no condoms before having sex, woman says to him she'll use the morning after pill, woman changes her mind and wants to have her baby and the man didn't sign up for this
3. One night stand, man is very drunk and wakes up next day to find the woman wants to have her baby and the man didn't sign up for this in his own memory or at least not when he is in a state to decide
4. Any above situation with woman having loads of money already and not needing support
5. Any above situation with woman already married or with a different partner who can look after the baby (and wants to)
Can we really apply a blanket rule of the man ought to support the child, whether that be through money or fathering in all situations? I think not.
PreservePosts: 138
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View Profile I think the argument starts from the assumption that we're ok with women having abortions if they don't feel capable of raising the child. If you're denying that premise then we'll have to take a step back before we can consider LPS.
Yeah I pretty much disagree to that reason for an abortion. Though I still think comparing abortion to LPS isn't quite accurate. The only way I will accept LPS is if the man got tricked as in the women using a condom to get pregnant. Though I'm sure, If proven they already have something that protects the man in this instance.
Let's lay down some thought experiments then.
1. One night stand, man thinks woman is on the pill or something but doesn't ask and then the woman wants to have her baby and the man didn't sign up for this
2. One night stand, man notices no condoms before having sex, woman says to him she'll use the morning after pill, woman changes her mind and wants to have her baby and the man didn't sign up for this
3. One night stand, man is very drunk and wakes up next day to find the woman wants to have her baby and the man didn't sign up for this in his own memory or at least not when he is in a state to decide
4. Any above situation with woman having loads of money already and not needing support
5. Any above situation with woman already married or with a different partner who can look after the baby (and wants to)
Can we really apply a blanket rule of the man ought to support the child, whether that be through money or fathering in all situations? I think not.
So basically you give up all accountability because you were being irresponsible?
AzureModerator2Posts: 8,579
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View Profile Preserve, are you male or female? I ask, simply because you seem to have a view that men are obligated to be father's unless very specific circumstances occur.
Skeletonxf2Posts: 2,706
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View Profile So basically you give up all accountability because you were being irresponsible?
In scenario 1, I'll say no
In 2 and 3 the man is effectively being manipulated. If you flipped the scenario around with the man promising to prevent the baby, lying, and then forcing the woman to have it and deal with it i think there would be a lot of objections.
Judith Jarvis Thomson's Violinist example come into play here. I'm on a tablet and don't have time to find a page on it, but I can check back for it later.