talking about the tower spawn 2 of ele, it is one of the best method to waste resources

2000 gold + 1000 mana for a unit with lower dps and single unit target, with low health and not able to hit air units.

personally i highly support the giant tree change, but even giant tree exists

I still think ele should either have buff on range units / charrogs, because charrog+Air/Fire just suck too much when compare with jug/wing or spear/arch

Quote from mysterybat

I still think ele should either have buff on range units / charrogs, because charrog+Air/Fire just suck too much when compare with jug/wing or spear/arch

I know me supporting this is probably going to get nutsophast accusing me of wanting to make ele the same as Order and Chaos again, but yeah, charrog+air/fire had loads of potential to be an interesting matchup against spearcher and it's a shame instead we just see trees :/

how about replacing blind gate

I have a idea that I would like to throw around that would

(a) let tress stay as they are and let them be balanced as they are. Balancing tress with the giant tree idea would make them even more difficult to balance.
(b) Deals with the blind gate problem
(c) deals with ele's late game problem

At the moment in terms on combinations we can make 5 units char,cyc,tree, infer and V
We also have two 'Abilities' scorch and blind gate

What if we changed that so we had the 5 combo units as normal but we replaced those two 'abilities' with so called super units.

These super units would be like normal units apart from

1. They take 3 elements
2. and more mana maybe 300-500

I suggest Water-Air-Fire AND Earth Air Fire

one of them would be a super tank unit maybe a massive moving electric/burning golem type creature

and the other could be maybe a super mage a bit like the magikil but better it would be grounded (maybe flying) and would be a burning cloud that could strike units maybe have healing rain and maybe hide a unit

Please change my idea if you can find a better way to use the idea.

Sadly for the sake of symmetry we would have to sack scorch bu I feel this idea would be a lot of fun and give ele more units and ideas. (units have more uses than abilities)

Thank you for reading

Seriously whyyyy is this even a thread. A giant tree. Are we serious. Can we address the root of ele problems instead of making them more extravagant?

Quote from Skeletonxf

I know me supporting this is probably going to get nutsophast accusing me of wanting to make ele the same as Order and Chaos again, but yeah, charrog+air/fire had loads of potential to be an interesting matchup against spearcher and it's a shame instead we just see trees :/

wyzdm has the same idea and hopes to make ele same as order and chaos
tho i don't really support it
One of the main idea for the devs to create elemental empire is that, "Combination" , mainly depends on player's reaction time and fast decision to make correct units. If elemental are same as order and chaos, the new features and ideas will be wasted.


Charrog + air/fire has only potential against bad order/chaos players. I have more than 1000 matches of experience dealing with this situation in both classic and dm. When you look into detail about the dps, range and defence power, you will realize they are not comparable builds.
Yes, you are correct ,it's a shame we just see trees. But why you only see trees? because other units of elemental suck. Using the unit that does not suck is not shame, it is just common sense.

It comes back to the same point that only earth air and tress are cost effective and even tress are starting to suck. That's why I suggest we create powerful late game units using my 3 elemental combination idea we would keep blind gate and scorch so that earth+air and fire+water still make something but EArth-air fire and water air fire would help ele late game

edit

would also enable ele to spend some mana on units as these combination could cost 300-500 mana maybe more

In my experience another root problem of ele that we're not talking about it ele's total lack of response to Archers.

If we can't find a way to fix that then it doesn't matter how much potential ele has to fight on for 5 mins, it won't be able to. The way for ele to address archers has got to be one that works on a small amount of money, so really we're looking at earth reworks to make streaming earths work army and eco wise against archer spam or finding a way to make airs anti archer without air start insta winning on short maps.

Quote from DragonArcherZ

Seriously whyyyy is this even a thread. A giant tree. Are we serious. Can we address the root of ele problems instead of making them more extravagant?

This is a root problem. Ele needs a late game that works and changing the mid game and early game at the same time to give this can fix other problems like the charrog+water mass macro.

Quote from lewislewis

It comes back to the same point that only earth air and tress are cost effective and even tress are starting to suck. That's why I suggest we create powerful late game units using my 3 elemental combination idea we would keep blind gate and scorch so that earth+air and fire+water still make something but EArth-air fire and water air fire would help ele late game

1) Making an entire new unit is going to take a lot of dev work
2) We're already out of hotkeys to use for units

I don't think more units is the way to solve existing units being useless in many cases.

This giant tree will also require new animation.

if this goes ahead tree will become a early mid and late game unit it will be hard to balance tress because they could become OP or UP.

What if we increased to mana price of some ele units like cycloids and give them a buff.

or we remove scorch and blind gate with two new units

What new animation do you think it would need?

Size increasing it won't take any new animations and I doubt adding any extra spells would be needed either. Hmm. Tree spam as of now is still quite strong, and not nerfing trees even more early game might lead to more tree spam rather than less.

Perhaps we can all look at giant trees once ele gameplay is healthier in other aspects. Finding a way for ele to fight archers is probably needed before giant trees would aid the situation.

Giant trees would require every animation to be changed/enlarged you seen how animated elemental units are? thats why is lags so much hell the units are even animated when their standing still notice the blinking eyes on trees?

Ele counter to archers should be fires but fires are so broken that they don't provide a good enough counter.

I was thinking about your idea last night Skele and thought what if we are using trees wrong? at the moment we treat them like casters i.e. far away from the fighting as possible in your HB. What if we used them as tanks now? so we used them to protect for example fires.

Tress already have a lot of health maybe we are not using that too our advantage?

Would anyone be willing to test my idea?

Edit

Not many ele players seems to buy the advanced healing technology maybe if they brought it they might see better results or we could scrap the ability altogether and start with upgraded waters.

Quote from lewislewis

Giant trees would require every animation to be changed/enlarged you seen how animated elemental units are? thats why is lags so much hell the units are even animated when their standing still notice the blinking eyes on trees?

Ele counter to archers should be fires but fires are so broken that they don't provide a good enough counter.

I was thinking about your idea last night Skele and thought what if we are using trees wrong? at the moment we treat them like casters i.e. far away from the fighting as possible in your HB. What if we used them as tanks now? so we used them to protect for example fires.

Tress already have a lot of health maybe we are not using that too our advantage?

Would anyone be willing to test my idea?

Edit

Not many ele players seems to buy the advanced healing technology maybe if they brought it they might see better results or we could scrap the ability altogether and start with upgraded waters.

Trees are used as tanks lol. They spawn tanks.
People don't buy upgrade for water because it is useless.

I'm saying what if we used them like speartons

no
no
no
no
No
nO
NO
we do not want ele to become like order and chaos

Okay let's clear a few things up

1) Giants grow without needing new animations. I don't know why Trees would be anything different.
2) Trees are WAY too slow to be used as spears. Making trees fast would just feel weird.
3) If fires were a good counter to archers then ele would win every time a short map came around. Fires are mobile and can kite out swords, if they were anti archer as well that wouldn't end well. For non start game, fires are also an expensive way to deal with archers. I think we're going to have to look at making earth spam, waters and airs work against archers, not any units worth more than 400 gold.
4) Trees can be used as tanks to hold centre tower and they work way too well at doing this. Having immobile units on the field really shuts down a lot of micro play, add in the undodgable tree blossom and trees actively work against having any micro in the game right now
5) Water heal got nerfed too hard to be useful now. This is why I'd like to see water heal getting buffed with a hp nerf to charrogs, castle Air nerf promoting ele fights Order in the first 3 mins of gameplay instead of turtles, and a way for ele to tank late game without using charrogs and instead using trees. That way waters become useful again and ele has better late game without being able to do the charrog+water macro that waters got nerfed to stop.