If you nerf castle air you will force ele to fight but ele cant fight well for too reasons

earths lose 1v1 to swords I know this is a game of armies but that discourages using earths aggressively from the start
waters only uses is to freeze and heal (but healing isent strong enough right now)

that leaves freezing but waters only have one bar of health they quickly get beat up and the unit dies and the freeze is over or the water retreats and the freeze is over. It would be fun to see earth+water( with OUT combining into tress) V sword and archer.

What if we

1. waters do a SMALL amount of damage like 1/4 of a bar every 5 sounds
2. Waters have hp increase to 2 bars like the other base units
3. Earths have a small damage buff on swords

Airs maybe do less damage but have a faster rate of fire this would enable airs to change target quicker as they would do same damage but this would be a small buff to help V archers as they have low health.
Fires should have larger range or maybe just fricken shoot straight instead of this arching path.

Vs Chaos well earths v crawlers looks a lot better than earths V swords

Yeah, right now ele also can't work with earths against archers

I hadn't thought of waters doing damage but that might just work.

Water damage + earths would make waters running into archers more viable, a hp increase might make it work well enough as a way to push archers back that ele can fight for a bit till it gets airs as well.

I don't think earths need a damage buff, more like an attack speed buff. Right now any number of earths cannot hit a single crawler or archer if the opposing player micros correctly. If earths could land their attack stun more reliably, also given you can get earths out into the game much more easily than swords, so they'd outnumber the swords, then earth spam versus sword/crawler spam would work out.

Then why don't we if theirs enough support forward this to CJ this would require no animation. Just another bar above a waters head and maybe some blood or a small noise when waters do damage!

I was thinking the damage would look more like giving the unit hypothermia?

Even better I was thinking how would you show that? Big flash of bright blue? A grone?

wow I am agree with your concluded ideas

just some ice poking them for the animation maybe?

Yay I have added something to the community ( celebration over)

Water HP buff to 2 bars
Waters do damage Hyperthermia to the unit. That just leaves how much damage.

If we had a water+ earth start with no mana and no early tree the damage couldn't be too much other wise what ever unit arrived at center would die instantly.

I suggest 1/5 maybe 1/4 of a bar evrey 3 secounds.
When we decide on that then we can notify this to CJ

If we had a water+ earth start with no mana and no early tree the damage couldn't be too much other wise what ever unit arrived at center would die instantly.

ye

I suggest 1/5 maybe 1/4 of a bar evrey 3 secounds.

ask skele
I have no sense in this thing

and give earth faster speedz

Quote from lewislewis

Yay I have added something to the community ( celebration over)

You've come far xD

Another thing is the water needs to be able to reach its target. There's no use chasing down an archer if it can kite away before getting caught. I think we may need a water speed buff as well. The damage shouldn't need to be much, maybe 1/4 archer's bar should work.

Earths defo need a faster attack time too.

Quote from Skeletonxf

I know me supporting this is probably going to get nutsophast accusing me of wanting to make ele the same as Order and Chaos again, but yeah, charrog+air/fire had loads of potential to be an interesting matchup against spearcher and it's a shame instead we just see trees :/

I've been away so sorry for my absence. I am not going to reply to every single thing you said as I'm tired of your suggestions and this thread. All I want to say is that I think you simply don't like eles, they could do with a change but it doesn't need a change like your absurd ideas. And keep in mind I'm not "accusing" you right now or before. I could be wrong, stupid or right, but I won't continue this argument as this idea is overall silly.

If you're tired because of my suggestions don't respond to them or say why they're absurd, stating that they are and not saying why is a waste of all our time.

Whether Skele likes Ele or not doesn't matter he suggest a idea to sort out a late game problem ele has no tanks late game.

What do you think of my idea Nutsophast about giving waters damage, and a hp buff. This could sort out or partly sort out eles early game problems, and the need to turtle. My self I am looking forward to a water earth start with out morphing into trees.

The giant tree in principal works maybe it is absurd but we are trying. If you don't like the tree idea say so.

I want to hear your ideas cause if they are any good together we can change ele for the better and make it competitive

The other problems is a air start V Chaos

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Another idea I was wondering what you would think of this as I may have a solution to

Ele late game problems
The under use of mana (no big mana units)
the charrog water hp nerf thingy problem
that doenst require new units or aniamtion

The cheaper combinations all contain earth elements so what if we put all the combinations containing earth on the left side of the HUD. Which is already how the hud looks apart from scorch and blind gate I would swap those over. The four basic elements would stay where they are

All the combos on the left side would be the mid game units so we would have trees charhog and blind gate these would be left alone apart from charhogs who would have a hp nerf and maybe a 50 mana reduction but that's a big maybe.

The combos on the right Cycloids infernos (V but that would stay where it is) and scorch would all have mana increases.

Cycloids would cost 300-500 mana and would have a speed increase a health increase by two bars or three bars and a damage increase (armour if they don't have that already). This would give ele a counter to eclipsor and albow MASSES and that is important MASSES.

The cycloid would be a counter to masses as it would be tanky enough to protect airs and fast enough to chase and kill albows.

Infernos would have a increase to 500-800 mana. I would buff their spells vastelios would come out of the ground quicker fire rain would not require research infernos would start with metor strike. Maybe the meteors would do more damage when they hit. and maybe another spell. I would copy poison spray from the magikill but call it burn spray (probably something more inventive to cut the link with a magikill.

This would give ele a counter to late game ground threates in general.

I would leave scorch as it is maybe a mana cost and a buff but that would be for the sake of it really

I can here people say this would be OP but these would be LATE game units only and might not even see use. They would require large amounts of mana and they can be nerfed if needed.

Im not trying to change the game or make Ele OP but I feel this could help the empire late game and make it competitive.

Any thoughts or changes?

Another idea I was wondering what you would think of this as I may have a solution to

Ele late game problems
The under use of mana (no big mana units)
the charrog water hp nerf thingy problem
that doenst require new units or aniamtion

The cheaper combinations all contain earth elements so what if we put all the combinations containing earth on the left side of the HUD. Which is already how the hud looks apart from scorch and blind gate I would swap those over. The four basic elements would stay where they are

All the combos on the left side would be the mid game units so we would have trees charhog and blind gate these would be left alone apart from charhogs who would have a hp nerf and maybe a 50 mana reduction but that's a big maybe.

The combos on the right Cycloids infernos (V but that would stay where it is) and scorch would all have mana increases.

Cycloids would cost 300-500 mana and would have a speed increase a health increase by two bars or three bars and a damage increase (armour if they don't have that already). This would give ele a counter to eclipsor and albow MASSES and that is important MASSES.

The cycloid would be a counter to masses as it would be tanky enough to protect airs and fast enough to chase and kill albows.

Infernos would have a increase to 500-800 mana. I would buff their spells vastelios would come out of the ground quicker fire rain would not require research infernos would start with metor strike. Maybe the meteors would do more damage when they hit. and maybe another spell. I would copy poison spray from the magikill but call it burn spray (probably something more inventive to cut the link with a magikill.

This would give ele a counter to late game ground threates in general.

I would leave scorch as it is maybe a mana cost and a buff but that would be for the sake of it really

I can here people say this would be OP but these would be LATE game units only and might not even see use. They would require large amounts of mana and they can be nerfed if needed.

Im not trying to change the game or make Ele OP but I feel this could help the empire late game and make it competitive.

Any thoughts or changes?

I plan on making a new thread for some of these issues quite soon, but I have work to do first.

thanx skele I will wait I promise :)