Restoring water to its old heal makes charrog rush basically unstoppable... order can't put out enough DPS to even begin to stop it, unlike spear rush or similar where with good defense you can push back.

Quote from alternate

Restoring water to its old heal makes charrog rush basically unstoppable... order can't put out enough DPS to even begin to stop it, unlike spear rush or similar where with good defense you can push back.

charrog rush is basically the easiest and most stupid ele build that I ever counter. Just a wall and 1-2 magikills is enough to completely stop it.

Quote from alternate

Restoring water to its old heal makes charrog rush basically unstoppable... order can't put out enough DPS to even begin to stop it, unlike spear rush or similar where with good defense you can push back.

If you spend your time in the match complaining rather than actually trying how to beat it of course it's going to be "unstoppable" for you. As myst said, it's easy to counter

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

If you spend your time in the match complaining rather than actually trying how to beat it of course it's going to be "unstoppable" for you. As myst said, it's easy af to counter

Legend of Cheetos, your funny... unskilled, inconsistent, but funny. so you have one thing going for you...

Myst, I just don't think it works that way... even with two magikill (which assumes a lot about the battle), an order player can't stop a charrog rush supported with a single V with the old water heal... it was way too powerful compared to healing for other empires.

Magikill work well against tree spammers though.

Quote from alternate

Legend of Cheetos, your funny... unskilled, inconsistent, but funny. so you have one thing going for you...

Myst, I just don't think it works that way... even with two magikill (which assumes a lot about the battle), an order player can't stop a charrog rush supported with a single V with the old water heal... it was way too powerful compared to healing for other empires.

Magikill work well against tree spammers though.

Unskilled that's why you've lost to me many times before lmao

It's hardly a charrog rush if they have a V smart one

"Too powerful compared to other empires"? Oh, spending 350 gold to cure your units from a single poison spray sure is powerful..

Quote from alternate

Legend of Cheetos, your funny... unskilled, inconsistent, but funny. so you have one thing going for you...

Myst, I just don't think it works that way... even with two magikill (which assumes a lot about the battle), an order player can't stop a charrog rush supported with a single V with the old water heal... it was way too powerful compared to healing for other empires.

Magikill work well against tree spammers though.

there was an ele player here before (everyone knew his name and he got banned now)

he charrog massed every single match, yet he still sucked(rating of 1700 in classic and 2100 in deathmatch)

And of course if you get magikills, you should have ninjas first. Ninjas+ magikill is unstoppable build for ele

Even before water heal nerf, elemental is the easiest empire for me to fight against when I play as order

And after water nerf, I have not yet lost even single once to any elemental player when I play as order (if anyone did beat me with ele, plz let me know)

but whatever , water heal is rubbish now. So dealing with charrogs and trees are even easier

Quote from mysterybat

there was an ele player here before (everyone knew his name and he got banned now)

he charrog massed every single match, yet he still sucked(rating of 1700 in classic and 2100 in deathmatch)

And of course if you get magikills, you should have ninjas first. Ninjas+ magikill is unstoppable build for ele

Even before water heal nerf, elemental is the easiest empire for me to fight against when I play as order

And after water nerf, I have not yet lost even single once to any elemental player when I play as order (if anyone did beat me with ele, plz let me know)

but whatever , water heal is rubbish now. So dealing with charrogs and trees are even easier

My general anti-ele build is ninjas with two CA and magikill, and merics to support and walls... with the old water heal, it was pretty worthless to stop a charrog rusher. A number of players in the 2000+ range used to use such a strat... I will point out, the fact that a poor players uses a strat poorly doesn't mean the strat is under or OP. So your example really doesn't surprise me, but it doesn't change that the old water heal was ridiculously OP for ele to rush... a person can just run water after water and order did not have sufficient DPS to stop it... once the wall is broke, they quickly kill the magikills... charrog area fire damage.. order has to turtle eco, etc.

Quote from alternate

My general anti-ele build is ninjas with two CA and magikill, and merics to support and walls... with the old water heal, it was pretty worthless to stop a charrog rusher. A number of players in the 2000+ range used to use such a strat... I will point out, the fact that a poor players uses a strat poorly doesn't mean the strat is under or OP. So your example really doesn't surprise me, but it doesn't change that the old water heal was ridiculously OP for ele to rush... a person can just run water after water and order did not have sufficient DPS to stop it... once the wall is broke, they quickly kill the magikills... charrog area fire damage.. order has to turtle eco, etc.

"once the wall is broken, they quickly kill the magikills"
that is why you cannot let your wall broken.

in my opinion, a thing is only called "op" only if nothing can stop it
yet it was easily stopped for me (old water heal was still weak under poison spray and electric wall)

Fighting ele is generally same as fighting chaos, you have to be aggressive in the beginning, then a bit defensive later

When fighting chaos, chaos units have auto heal which can make them easier to deal with poison
but for elemental, each heal costs 350 gold, that means one poison spray can cost elemental player to spend 350 gold, this is a great deal for order side.

Maybe I give you a few examples how old water heal still did not help much
www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay8247049&version=2.22

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay8247099&version=2.22

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay8247099&version=2.22

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay8247219&version=2.22

^ this guy was 2100-2200 in deathmatch, keep charrog rush every single match with water heal, but I beat him like more than 30 times

it may be unstoppable for you, but not for me

I don't even use charrogs. :c
I don't really see the water change affecting the game drastically.
That is to say that I see the difference in heal, however I don't see it changing the match outcome the majority of the time as I only time I really need waters is to cure my units or freeze a priority.

Quote from Skeletonxf

I think waters just need to be able to freeze ninjas permanently instead of till Ninjas shinobi. That alone should help out ele against Ninjas.

I agree, it makes no sense that shadows can do that. And change water heal to heal more than 2.05 version (the version that mysterybat showed). The first water heal was op but still, water heal didn't need to get nerfed so much, you're already sacrificing a 350 gold unit.

I think if you change water we will already fix a lot of elemental's problems (at least for me).

Quote from nutsophast

I agree, it makes no sense that shadows can do that. And change water heal to heal more than 2.05 version (the version that mysterybat showed). The first water heal was op but still, water heal didn't need to get nerfed so much, you're already sacrificing a 350 gold unit.

I think if you change water we will already fix a lot of elemental's problems (at least for me).

the version that I showed was 2.22... lol

p.s never think water heal was op

Quote from PUMU

I don't even use charrogs. :c
I don't really see the water change affecting the game drastically.
That is to say that I see the difference in heal, however I don't see it changing the match outcome the majority of the time as I only time I really need waters is to cure my units or freeze a priority.

It is necessary in late game. Yes, I know you're supposed to destroy them before that, but it is really necessary if you get stalled that far. Hard enough as it is, but then they nerfed it. Also CA3 just fucks elemental

Quote from mysterybat

the version that I showed was 2.22... lol

p.s never think water heal was op

The game you showed was 2.22 but the water heal was last updated in 2.05, hence it is the 2.05 version. And maybe first water heal wasn't op, but I think healing more than 50% hp of charrog is a little op. But maybe they nerfed it too much after. I'm just saying, balance it to be in between the op water heal and the shitty water heal.

Late game i just mass v's and use my super micro skills to send 5 v's and 10 clones to rek some stuff. As long as the opponent is in base, i can control what he does, manipulate the decisions he makes to my benefit and win the game without letting him/her (if hers exist in the game franchise) push out of base never really needing to destroy tower. I just dont like charrogs. Use em if it suits ya though by all means.

This idea suddenly pop out from my head
Why don't we make water heal upgrade a level system again? :P
like the scorpions upgrade, water healing should be the same so the level 2 water healing should be good enough for healing while itself being costly

So Ele actually have a chance in late game for classic and this stops ele from being dominant in DM

What do ya think?