Blade Mercenaries

Started by: Haru | Replies: 324 | Views: 31,436

Shadowolf
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Aug 5, 2015 5:06 PM #1391831
I'll try to fix that editing issue....

EDIT: You should be able to edit it now.
Haru
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Aug 16, 2015 9:34 PM #1396370
For those whose think we are dead...
Think again, cause we are going to show something cool...
Chaotic Penguin
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Aug 17, 2015 6:15 AM #1396428
People think we're dead?
Vern
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Aug 17, 2015 12:32 PM #1396483
Quote from Chaotic Penguin
People think we're dead?


Only those that have no clue what's been up think you're dead. I do suggest commencing with weeklies once we're done with this.

Well now that I've made my post here, might as well throw in some questions that've come to mind while working on the battle :

Chaotic, you haven't clarified Catena's age, so I'm left entirely guessing. My thoughts put her somewhere in her 20's? This isn't necessarily crucial info for the battle but it helps a big deal in understanding your character, and portraying her more accurately.
Concerning the "chains from earth" thing, I'm simply assuming that the chains can burst through asphalt and concrete as well if there's earth beneath them, or how does that work?

Haru, whilst writing I've found your character to quite honestly be the least intimidating of the three. Your powers are okay, but they lack versatility, and without proper hand to hand combat knowledge to back it up you're basically target practice for Gamma. And on that subject, Kiro feels a bit sloppy as a whole, there's little info on his personality, his appearance is quite flashy, though I guess that's okay, and his powers are extremely straightforward and easily dealt with by anyone smart enough to avoid or counter them. I'd suggest looking into your character a bit more, giving him a bit more thought and such...

Now Shado, we already talked and you're an alright guy, your writing is alright too. But god, your character is an insane toolbox. I don't really think people understand how ridiculous Shado is until they have to fight him, and I'm having incredible problems giving him a fair chance in the fight simply because there is absolutely nothing Gamma can do to him that he can't deal with. Your character has a billion different powers which don't even make logical sense, he can deal with pretty much any given scenario, and no wRHG character should have a nuke at their disposal, that's basically saying "Y'know what? fuck it idgaf".

But its your character, and you can do whatever you want with him. It's just that the way he is now, I can't help but feel like "Yo, wtf? OP?"

Now if there's any questions or issues you're having with Gamma, then you're free to fire away ^^ (It's agent Gamma, Shado, not agent Omega ;) )
Haru
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Aug 17, 2015 7:04 PM #1396577
Alright,
Might see a little spice to my character soon. Any of you got any bright ideas?
I'm planning to make him less flashy. The main issue is the powers I guess, mainly because, as Vern said himself, they are easily countered. I am thinking of revamping his whole thing.
Maybe binning his thread and giving more thought. You guys concur?
Chaotic Penguin
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Aug 18, 2015 1:16 AM #1396714
Quote from Vern

Chaotic, you haven't clarified Catena's age, so I'm left entirely guessing. My thoughts put her somewhere in her 20's? This isn't necessarily crucial info for the battle but it helps a big deal in understanding your character, and portraying her more accurately.
Concerning the "chains from earth" thing, I'm simply assuming that the chains can burst through asphalt and concrete as well if there's earth beneath them, or how does that work?


She around 20, I should've clarified.

Now if there's any questions or issues you're having with Gamma, then you're free to fire away ^^ (It's agent Gamma, Shado, not agent Omega ;) )


I mentioned Omega in the collab, must've confused him :D

---
Also, edit my score Haru. I've miserably lost one.
Shadowolf
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Aug 22, 2015 5:15 PM #1398228
Vern, your inbox was full, so I am going to copy and paste you the section I added to my char page in response to your queries.

Rationalizing The Shadowolf -- is he really an OP Toolbox? (Click to Show)


Haru...just a note, my char now has 2 victories...could you please adjust that on the stats?
Vern
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Aug 23, 2015 12:46 AM #1398297
Quote from Shadowolf
Vern, your inbox was full, so I am going to copy and paste you the section I added to my char page in response to your queries.

Spoiler (Click to Show)
ple think of SHado as a bit OP or toolbox-ish. Shado is not a “toolbox” by definition. He does not have a multiplicity of skills; he has only one skill, one ability modifier, and two specialty weapons. He is an extremely well rounded multitool, but not an OP toolbox. I will address these issues below, helping to rationalize all that I have written about him.


His skill (since his metal powers are one of the main issues here, I presume) is relatively easy to get around if you know what you are doing –

First, he does not control all metals. Modern alloys, titanium, and aluminum are some of the most prevalent examples.

Second, he is fully mortal. His strength allows him to take more damage than a normal person, but not much. While he can “coat himself in metal,” at the absolute MAX this is a half inch, and even that is pushing it. After all, he does need to be able to move, expand his lungs, etc. While this sounds like a lot, according to the Smithsonian a 1500’s proto-gun called a harquebus could shoot through well over an inch of steel plate. Though Shado usually uses tungsten (due to its greatly increased hardness), his armor is still mainly for light-to-moderate melee, light handguns, and machine guns.

Third, the metal will never seal off his mouth, nose, eyes, and ears (the outside of his ears are coated, but not the ear canal). Any damage dealt without his armor (or being blocked by his shield) will be fully felt. This includes things that target the exposed parts I just listed

Fourth, if you know even a little science, you will know that his powers help precious little with many forms of damage. Electricity (such as from Vern’s char Agent Gamma’s staff, or an EMP rifle, EMP grenade, tazer, etc.) will conduct through any of his metals (some less than others, but none are insulators). Acid will damage his skin, eyes, nose, and lungs…Flash grenades will blind him. Water will drown him. Napalm (though he is heat resistant, he is not fireproof) will burn him…you get the idea.

Fifth, the size/complexity factor of what he generates cannot be over-emphasized. Shado does not go “bippity-boppity-boop” and make anything he wants appear. He has to create it, and while he is extremely intelligent, and his mind is geared for using his power, he still has a normal brain. Most of what he works with – though often rather large – are relatively simple creations: steel columns, chucks of iron, molten ore, blades and spikes, chains, etc. Sure, if he really wanted to, he could build himself a giant Mecca suit and go on a rampage on his opponents. He will (probably…) never do that, though, since such a creation would literally take days for him to complete, and require insane multi-tasking to make function once he did complete it.

Sixth, his focus can be interrupted. If he is working on a more complex job (like his special weapons), putting too much pressure on him will prevent him from being able to focus well enough to complete his task. In cases such as this, he will usually only be able to use simple creations, perhaps a very basic gun or melee weapon at best.


As for his Lycanic abilities…

First, these are limited to mortal power. He is immensely enhanced, but he is not comic-strip guru. He is fast, but not Flash. He is strong, but not Superman. He can take a lot of damage, but he is not the Hulk.

Second, his senses match those of a wild wolf (except for the fact that he sees in color, and has a human’s range of vision). While his sense of smell, hearing, and sight are vastly better than a normal human, they are not supernatural. Their weaknesses are the same as well. Put a dog-whistle (or similarly high pitched sound) next to his ears, and you will cause his great pain (though not insurmountable). An extremely powerful low pitch (like the sound waves generated by earthquakes) will cause him even greater pain. Pepper spray will affect him more than the average person, even bringing him near unconsciousness with a direct, concentrated blast. (He does not have whiskers, so sense of touch is excluded.)

Third, since canines possess what is usually dubbed a “sixth sense,” so does Shado. When it comes to normal creatures, this is nothing more than a general feeling. He can sense when someone is preparing to kill him, and will be able to know the general direction, but nothing more. This basic sense is unaffected by distance. With supernatural powers this sense becomes more detailed, allowing him to know their specific location, anticipate their actions, and even be resistant to magical and other supernatural forms of damage. This level of enhancement only applies to close range, however, and quickly declines with distance.


And finally, the issue we all have been waiting for…his nuclear spear…

I will make this as concise as possible:
1) Shado will only use his nuke when he is isolated enough that the blast will not harm any innocents/friendlies.
2) Shado will only use his nuke when there is no wind, and he is isolated enough that the radioactive fallout will not harm any innocents/friendlies.
3) Shado will only use his nuke when he considers it fair and gentlemanly to do so (in other words, he will keep the odds even, thus limiting the use of his nuke to extremely powerful – supernaturally so – opponents).
4) Shado will only use his nuke when he is certain that he will be able to create his “bomb shelter” without interruption (though designed to fit only himself, this dome-like structure is moderately large and meticulously designed, see the size/complexity factor under his skill section above).
5) Shado will only use his nuke when he is certain that he will be able to detonate it without interruption (detonating his spear-tip is not a simple matter. It is a complex atomic process that, though he has practiced it to perfection, still takes a little bit of time. If he is forced to shift his focus while part-way through this process, the spear tip with either be decapacitated due to rapid nuclear decay at that stage, or will become unstable and randomly detonate later.)
6) It must be remembered that Shado can be killed by his own nuke. He is only resistant enough to stand the after-effects safely, not the blast.
7) It must be remembered that Shado must throw the spear, and that such range is not particularly far due to its great size and mass. Otherwise, it must be planted on or near the target manually.
8) It must be remembered that Shado must be able to keep track of the spear in order to detonate it. If he loses track of it for any reason (he is forced to do too many other things that he forgets where it is, or he plants it on a moving target that he then loses track of before he can detonate it…) then he cannot detonate it. There is no automatic mental link between him and his spear. Though intense focus allows him to detonate it out of sight, more often than not he will have too many things on his plate to be able to that. Thus, detonation is TYPICALLY limited to line of sight.

All in all, due to the limitations above, Shado will almost never actually use the nuclear capabilities of his spear. Due to factor number 3, most wRHG characters will never even need to fear the spear (although he would never communicate this, so they will not know that they are safe…).
His only use of it so far was against Marcus Regulus by Aric Kale (see the battle on my char page). We will evaluate the factors of that as an example.
First, the factory complex was abandoned and isolated, and there was little-to-no wind.
Secondly, Marcus’s use of both protection AND healing runes made him almost indestructible by normal means. It is to be noted that the nuke greatly drained Marcus’s “Life Force,” but did not kill him. In short, the extreme power of Shado’s nuke was in keeping with his opponent’s extreme damage-tanking abilities.
Third, Marcus lost track of Shado, giving him enough time to build his shelter, and then detonate his spear.
Fourth, the spear remained in line of sight throughout the battle. Additionally, Shado kept it in mind throughout the battle as well.
Fifth, the spearhead was manually planted (though not intentionally) near his target, thus making it effective.



Hopefully this helps rationalize The Shadowolf.
[/Spoiler]


Let's take a closer look then shall we?

Spoiler (Click to Show)
derstand any of the measurements you use, I suggest switching to metric system. For all I know 0.5 inches is 5 gazillion kilometres (Well I know it isn't, but you get the gest).

Now, let me get one thing clear right off the bat : In not a single possible situation would a RHG gladiator need a nuke to solve his problems, unless you plan on turning Shado into Mecha Hitler Bin Laden. Oh there might be logic behind it all, sure, but in the end we're talking about nuclear-grade weaponry which basically vaporizes anything in its blast radius. If you truly can't find a possible other way to beat someone like Marcus with the toolbox that is Shado, then you only have your own lack of creative insight to blame. Using a nuke to solve your problems is basically a big "fuck you" to your audience and your writing skills, because it just shows you're too lazy/incapable of coming up with something better. And no, nuclear explosions are NOT enticing to read, let me make that clear.

Clearly, you wish for people to take Shado a bit more seriously, well there's a few... *ahem* factors (I won't bring up all the fuss about him being a furry because that's probably been mentioned more than enough by now) which make it kinda hard to do so. Him being in the possession of a nuke, or even needing to have one in the first place, is one of those factors, for the reasons mentioned above.

Now you do a good job rationalizing his metalbending powers, but that's mostly from your perspective. Now put yourself in our shoes, sure, our characters have some ways to deal with specific things, but far from everyone has the "scientific" kind of attacks you mentioned, most either only specialize in a single aspect, or have a weakened version (Gamma's staff will run out of power before the jolt could ever kill you, for example). Sure I could try to burn you down with my firebender, but if that's the only thing I can do to you since my average hand-to-hand will never pace up with your raw strength, then that's rather straightforward for you to avoid, isn't it?

The big issue with Shado is not that he can bend metal and is a semi-wolf, but that these powers have been buffed in such a way that they cover up for each others weaknesses, leaving a character that can basically survive anything thrown at him, though his opponents might not be so lucky. Sure your weapons might be clumsy in close-quarters combat but that's irrelevant, since you'll still fuck up most people simply because you're a wolf, and their hand-to-hand combat aint gonna do much for them if you cut open their intestines with one haul of your claws. It's like playing against a ranged version of Riven (if you're into LoL), one mistake and he fucks you up, but he can make a 1.000.000 mistakes before it actually matters a shit.

Characters in the RHG most of the times are specialists, excelling in a certain field and having a few tricks up their sleeves to deal with their weak spots, but in the end they're nothing more than tricks. Or you have those that could rightfully be called multitools, who focus on versatility over specialization. They own a wider variation of abilities that can cover a wide range of situations, but those are usually linked together some way or another and are usually more limited than the specialized powers.

The issue with Shado is that he has multiple major abilities, that are seemingly just a random clutter of what you thought would be cool thrown into a blender and mixed into one character. The thing with good characters is that you choose a gimmic, then work your way out of that gimmic. For example, Gamma's gimmic is that of the highly-trained infiltration agent. Kiro's gimmic is musical-enhancement, and Catena's gimmic is rather straightforward, simple chain manipulation. Shado, however, doesn't really have a specific "gimmic".

Allow me to be more elaborate on my train of thought

Spoiler (Click to Show)
mpaging werewolf then?

"Nope, he's incredibly stoic and civilized."

Oh, so he's like a civilized werewolf, fighting evil with his Lycan abilities?

"Yeah, but he can also bend AND generate darker metals! You know, because Lycans totally need that power. So he's a wolf who can basically fuck you up close and personal, but if your character's good at that then Shado will just back off and crap on you with metal bending instead."

"Okay... I see?"

"Yeah, just in case, he also has a huge ass spear and a buckler that duals as a fucking machine gun, because not only is he basically a wolf that can fuck you up and a metalbender that can crap on you if you don't exactly struggle with wolves, he was also some sort of modern-time celtic warrior, so in case he feels like not being a wolf or a metalbender, he can still go back to being a celtic warrior."

"That doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean, sounds like he's 3 different people at once... Heck, why'd you bother being Catena, if you can just be Shado instead? Why be Seriff if you can just be Shado? Why be Leoncio if you can be Shado? He does what she does, and more!"

"Oh, I forgot to mention : He also has a sixth sense, so if you try to run he can just think really hard and then he knows where you are and he's probably faster than you, and if he's not he'll probably think of something to catch up with you, cuz he's smart like that. Also, because he's basically a dog, he's also basically a psychic, you know. Nature, science!"

"o_o? OP? So what're we supposed to do then? Most of our characters can't fight him because they lack the raw power required to overpower him, we can't outsmart him because he's basically a psychic, we can't hide cause he can smell AND sense us, we can't run because he can sense and catch up with us, we can't shoot him from a distance because then he'll just dodge it with his wolf speed, block it with his metal powers or some of that shit, and then will just continue to crap on us. So what're we supposed to do then?"

"Oh I'm sure you'll think of something. Also, he has a nuke."

Image[/spoiler]

Now, you provided us with some rationalizations :

He is immensely enhanced, but he is not comic-strip guru.


Let me clarify : Comic-strip gurus are basically just humans with immensely enhanced abilities, so your argument makes no sense. You can't say things like "He's extremely swift, agile, strong, smart and smooth" and then say "He isn't some kinda superdude guys, he's mortal and has a few weak spots!". Sure, he might have a few weak spots, but try to imagine how incredibly hard it is going after those very specific spots when Shado is basically liable to fuck you up in less than a second. You're saying others could harm him, well perhaps they could, but that is after they first manage to survive the onslaught Shado is capable of sending their way (which isn't the least, to be honest), then manage to find a way to trump him some way or another, and THEN manage to wear him down enough to claim victory. This sounds like some Dark Souls bossfight to me, really.

The lycan traits are okay in themselves, the metalbending is cool on itself too, so is the weapons gimmic, but it's because you throw all of these things together into a single, smart and clever character that he becomes a toolbox (not necessarily "overpowered", but still very, very tough). The powers don't fit each other (heck, the only explanation we
Shadowolf
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Aug 24, 2015 10:43 PM #1398913
Vern.

First off, I want to say what I have already said to Waffles...Shado is a "carry-over" character (more or less), created about two years ago by me for a RP system that was much better fitted to his abilities (lot's of supernatural characters there...hence the "slayer" background I gave him.) Coming in to wRHG, I only had so much of an idea to go on regarding how battles balanced out here.

Also, like I said to Waffles...I have another (newer, better) character in the works. So expect Shado to fade from the scene (although the other character does have a storyline tie with Shado) sooner or later this year.

There are only two extra things I have to say to your critiques: First, just forget about the nuke. Period. I am already going to write a section for his storyline that gets rid of that. (Somehow....). For now, just act like it isn't there (well, maybe have your char scared, but don't ever make Shado use it, no matter what the situation is...).

Second, his "sixth sense" is not specific (in most cases). I have stated this over and over. He knows SOMEONE has aggressive intentions towards him. He gets a GENERAL DIRECTION (up, down, left, right, behind, etc...) at best. Not distance, and certainly not location. Remember that.

Oh, and third (yeah, I know what I said...), perhaps I underemphasized how poor Shado was at close combat...HE SUCKS. If you have enough sense to dodge the occasional swipe he throws out, your safe if you keep the pressure up.

Yeah, I actually really wanted to have a fight with MrSkully....but, a forfeit is a forfeit. Why let it go to waste?

And don't worry about me taking this in the proper light...I'm totally cool with someone critiquing Shado...after all, if I am retiring him myself, don't you think I know he is a bit shabby? :p
Vern
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Aug 24, 2015 11:14 PM #1398920
For now, just act like it isn't there (well, maybe have your char scared, but don't ever make Shado use it, no matter what the situation is...).


Don't worry, as I mentioned there isn't a single situation in which a nuke would be the most optimal solution, thus I'd never implement it in my story.

perhaps I underemphasized how poor Shado was at close combat...HE SUCKS.


Well if you use words that emphasize how terrific Shado is at certain things, then ofcourse if you don't specifically state he sucks up close people will just think he's mediocre. Also my issue with the sixth sense is just that it doesn't make sense, and that frankly Shado already has a vastly superior sense of smell, so it's like a backup for when that doesn't work, and that's what bugs me.

Concerning the forfeit, you could also just've waited a little while longer/posted the battle without a victory claim (though that's equally as lame to the writer, so I can't really hold that against you).

If you're emphasizing how strong Shado is, and then aren't emphasizing on his weak points, naturally all of it's gonna come off as overpowered. Also I do hope your next char will be a bit more... solid then ;)
Shadowolf
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Aug 24, 2015 11:31 PM #1398923
Oh you bet he will...would you like me to send you the link to his work-in-progress char sheet?
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Aug 24, 2015 11:37 PM #1398924
Stop dillydallying, and finish your paragraph, Shado!
Shadowolf
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Aug 24, 2015 11:40 PM #1398926
LOL chaotic...fine...wanna join me?
(btw...you're one to talk....you make Haru and I wait rather often....)
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Aug 24, 2015 11:43 PM #1398928
Quote from Shadowolf
LOL chaotic...fine...wanna join me?
(btw...you're one to talk....you make Haru and I wait rather often....)


Heh, sorry 'bout that. The time zone difference is like 10 hours. Plus I have class in... 2 minutes.
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Aug 24, 2015 11:45 PM #1398929
KK. It will be done when you get back...