Quote from lewislewis

Airs attack speed buff is needed nerfimh damage to compensate is fine

Fires the fact they can be kites is ridclous archers can't do that to any other ranged unit. Why are fires a exception to the rule. Yes they hit hard thanks to burn and it could also be said have a unit cause a status effect as a basic attack with out reserach is also a break in the rules but thats ele one big break in the rules

IMO fires should just shoot straight that would fix so many problems. Personaly the problems burn caused is more than it's worth i don't know why it was in their in the first place unlesss as a response to the cry of bombets being op. Which theit wernt just split your swords. But that's another argument for another day

I agree, too many shots are missed with the fire's "arc" of a shot.

Imagine the pain of early game on short maps when playing as order though...

Quote from PUMU

Imagine the pain of early game on short maps when playing as order though...

Keep the range shorter, and the shot maybe slower, but dont arc it.

I don't think order would struggle early game swords and archers are strong enough.

Imagine the pain for Chaos would be more appropriate

Quote from PUMU

Imagine the pain of early game on short maps when playing as order though...

Make fires cost some mana (less gold) together with the projectile change?

It would also nicely make Infernoes and Vs less gold heavy and more mana heavy as well which would help late game be less obnoxious.

Quote from Skeletonxf

Make fires cost some mana (less gold) together with the projectile change?

It would also nicely make Infernoes and Vs less gold heavy and more mana heavy as well which would help late game be less obnoxious.

But then air is the only ranged unit to go into early game..

We cant have that seems strang that a base unit would cost mana. and it seems more logical that airs cost mana. What I think should occur is this.

the 4 base units are your early game units
the 4 combinations are your mid game units.
V is your late game unit

Its a shame they went down the path of combination units it would have been great if all units were elementals.

we could have had

dark lightning metal nature light rock and V etc. It would have been very cool to have lots of units with elemental heads and have V as the supreme leader

Or if we could go back and change things....

I would remove tress add a giant unit (maybe make tress giants?)
I would remove waters and add a late game spell caster that was aoe but had a aoe healing spell (maybe a water bomb???)
and I would releget V to a melle 2 tier like bombs and ninjas. I would remove the teleport and cloneing spell from and they can only posses melle or ranged class units so no merics mages or giants.

so

miner earth
melee 1 earth
melee 2 Charhog
melle 2 V
Ranged 1 fire
ranged 2 air
support cycloid
mage infernos
mage new healing aoe units
Giant Tree.

Or if we wanted to make miners and earth separate cut out the healing aoe unit and give cycloids a healing spell (maybe a water bomb)
The structure up their matches the current situation of ele.

ele currently has 4 spell casters Cycloid/Tree/infernos/V that's too many ORder has 2 Magikill and meric and Chaos has 2 Marrow and Medusa why their 4 for ele I don't know

Quote from lewislewis

We cant have that seems strang that a base unit would cost mana. and it seems more logical that airs cost mana. What I think should occur is this.

the 4 base units are your early game units
the 4 combinations are your mid game units.
V is your late game unit

Its a shame they went down the path of combination units it would have been great if all units were elementals.

we could have had

dark lightning metal nature light rock and V etc. It would have been very cool to have lots of units with elemental heads and have V as the supreme leader

Or if we could go back and change things....

I would remove tress add a giant unit (maybe make tress giants?)
I would remove waters and add a late game spell caster that was aoe but had a aoe healing spell (maybe a water bomb???)
and I would releget V to a melle 2 tier like bombs and ninjas. I would remove the teleport and cloneing spell from and they can only posses melle or ranged class units so no merics mages or giants.

so

miner earth
melee 1 earth
melee 2 Charhog
melle 2 V
Ranged 1 fire
ranged 2 air
support cycloid
mage infernos
mage new healing aoe units
Giant Tree.

Or if we wanted to make miners and earth separate cut out the healing aoe unit and give cycloids a healing spell (maybe a water bomb)
The structure up their matches the current situation of ele.

ele currently has 4 spell casters Cycloid/Tree/infernos/V that's too many ORder has 2 Magikill and meric and Chaos has 2 Marrow and Medusa why their 4 for ele I don't know

Elementals is meant to be a unique empire, stop trying to turn it into the other empires. The combination aspect is what MAKES it different. The tree is a unique unit for a unique empire, so naturally it isn't going anywhere.

You cannot compare elementals to order because they are not similar or the same.

Im not trying to make ele like order or chaos not before no not not ever. The combination idea has resulted in high gold prices and low mana prices of units as well as breaking several rules that make it un balanced. Order and chaos are so well balanced becuase they are so simliar is many regards look at star craft all 3 empires are varations of each other that's how ele mental should be.

I personaly belive that Tress will never be perfectly balanced and they are so strange to the game that they don't really work.
They have caused many problems in the past and are the root (no joke intended) of ele game all we see is trees as
they are the best thing else had till late gamr where no matter how many scorps you have you lose.

A unit that produces other units was unessary to bring into the game. I personaly belive Tress are perfect giant material and I would like too see a spell caster of which they have too many changed as ele needs other options to use and tress as gaints would provide that I would also nerf V and enable it to be used earlier as a ninja bombet class unit. I'd remove cloneing and V would not beavle to control any Mage or giant unit. By doing that we would have perfect balance and the bones for a competative empire. That I would probably use as it would be fun and fair.

I prefer the way that ele runs for the most part as it plays now.
The only things i do not like are the issues that ele faces against certain macro comps.
The arc has never truly been an issue as spending 450 g of your initial 500 is already a gamble in itself for a unit that seems to be more effective at shredding tankier units and if it were to die early on you would be SOL.
(main reason i triple earth)
Vs. wings, however, i agree that the projectiles of the fires should be able to hit the unit as it has no chance of hitting now when the wing is able to kite at a range that is lower than its maximum and still be out of range for the fires due to the dissipation time of the projectile and the arc.

Quote from lewislewis

I personaly belive that Tress will never be perfectly balanced and they are so strange to the game that they don't really work.
They have caused many problems in the past and are the root (no joke intended) of ele game all we see is trees as
they are the best thing else had till late gamr where no matter how many scorps you have you lose.

A unit that spawned other units was here before Stick Empires, they wanted to try and bring it back in a less OP fashion. The amount of scorps you lose matter MOMENTARILY. You have a cooldown which does not allow backup, which is balanced close enough. You act like the scorps tank like speartons and they can take so many hits when in reality they die quickly. It's not the best ele has, it's the best people THINK ele has.

Quote from lewislewis

A unit that produces other units was unessary to bring into the game. I personaly belive Tress are perfect giant material and I would like too see a spell caster of which they have too many changed as ele needs other options to use and tress as gaints would provide that I would also nerf V and enable it to be used earlier as a ninja bombet class unit. I'd remove cloneing and V would not beavle to control any Mage or giant unit. By doing that we would have perfect balance and the bones for a competative empire. That I would probably use as it would be fun and fair.

I already left my thoughts on giant trees. I say leave the trees, ditch blind gate, (make it a researchable for chomplers) and replace it with a giant charrog combo. I want trees to stay in the game, as you can tell. If Tower Spawn 2 already has a giant charrog, that means the giant of ele should really be a charrog. You don't see tower spawn 2 pop out a magikill. Same thing, you want to make a spell caster become tower spawn 2.

I'm not even going to bother multi quoting all those ideas for the V, as they all suck. Leave the V's as is. Leave the Trees as is. Just replace blind gate with a giant charrog combo, (3 charrogs = a Tower Spawn 2 Giant, or 2 charrogs = a giant with researchable size changes), make blind gate a researchable so it isn't totally lost, it's mainly used for defensive purposes anyways.

For real, you are aware that a V being able to control an important unit is usually the only way ele can win late game right? If you take that away, elementals is FUCKED.

Could you clarify exactly how the giant charrog unit replacement differs from ts2 aside from spawning in different areas?

Quote from PUMU

Could you clarify exactly how the giant charrog unit replacement differs from ts2 aside from spawning in different areas?

It would give ele a giant, which is what matters right? Isn't everyone saying "oh ele needs a tanky mc tank tank for late game?" You could also control it. What if you threw in some crazy thing like it can have infinity burn. That would be some interesting things, could rekt archer mass if they don't pull away in time.

Ase V can't control giants as ninjas will nullify the V. If you make charhogs a giant unit then what mid game response will theit be to spears what mid game tank will ele have. Tress have high hp atm why not give them a lesser use but solve a bigger problem other units will be used that will encourage micro between both players. The reason i suggested we nerf V to a tier 2 melle unit is that it excels at melle damage and Ele currently has 4 spell casters it only needs 2. Think about what options ele would have with a weakened V. It wouldn't be such a big target because it's not so expesnive. And it would have a fragile but good front line damage that could do some damage. I don't belive V works late game because of ninjas and is too weak standing still with 3 bars of health

Quote from lewislewis

Ase V can't control giants as ninjas will nullify the V. If you make charhogs a giant unit then what mid game response will theit be to spears what mid game tank will ele have. Tress have high hp atm why not give them a lesser use but solve a bigger problem other units will be used that will encourage micro between both players. The reason i suggested we nerf V to a tier 2 melle unit is that it excels at melle damage and Ele currently has 4 spell casters it only needs 2. Think about what options ele would have with a weakened V. It wouldn't be such a big target because it's not so expesnive. And it would have a fragile but good front line damage that could do some damage. I don't belive V works late game because of ninjas and is too weak standing still with 3 bars of health

You misunderstood me. Keep the charrogs, have an option to turn 2-3 charrogs into a giant charrog. Protect a V with cycloid and it won't get 1 hit KOed, just don't get hit is my only advice to you.