Quote from Drone

And if they've broken the rule before, gotten infracted for it and then come back to break the rule again multiple times over, don't you think they should be held responsible for all those times since they haven't learned from their mistake

Yes, I'm not suggesting we don't ban users at all for behavioral problems. Sometimes the only way to get through is to escalate like that, and in the end if that doesn't work then at the very least they're no longer causing problems for the staff here. I just think we're stuck at a point where the bar to get banned is too low.

Also I don't really expect you to know that with clan threads, and under our current rules you're actually in the right but that's also the kind of problem I have with it. Those users are having fun at no expense to others, why should we discourage that because it's technically against the rules or because older members think it's immature? That's why I want to brainstorm better ways to handle it so that younger members don't feel like they're getting the shaft for it. We can't expect everyone to just immediately be savvy.

Quote from Arch-Angel

No, if we could keep the post system the same, but add a few buttons or something to 'report' posts for whatever reason, then that will enable the community to moderate within itself. I believe last time we really talked about how moderation is down now one of the biggest gripes was how the rules are up to each mods own interpretation of the rules and how they're inconsistent.

Maybe I'm not reading you clearly, but we already have a report system? I just don't see how what you're suggesting is different from the existing one.

I'm thinking of something more user friendly, accessible, and that would require more than one person to report.

Quote from Arch-Angel

I'm thinking of something more user friendly, accessible, and that would require more than one person to report.

Oh I think I see. Do you mean like the more reports a post gets the more attention should be drawn to it for the mods?

Quote from Arch-Angel

that would require more than one person to report.

how is this an improvement? I'm confused too.

Quote from Drone

If someone accumulated enough infractions to warrant a ban, how did they not deserve that ban? I agree that some if the rules are a bit open ended though, it would be nice to have a few of them more clearly defined since there have been times where we'd go back and forth in the bat cave about whether or not something is or is not worthy of one infraction only to decide that it was breaking a completely different rule entirely

And ohh ok, nevermind then lol, guess I got a little ahead of myself

What if they're like me and put on a "special treatment" list, where my infractions don't expire.

Or am I on it/not on it, I'm actually a little unclear on that.

Quote from Jutsu

What if they're like me and put on a "special treatment" list, where my infractions don't expire.

I don't get what you're asking

And alright Jeff, I see what you mean. Maybe there should be sone kind of first offenders kind of thing where a user can only be given warnings up until a certain point? Idk, throwing sonething out there.

Quote from Drone

I don't get what you're asking

I'm saying that there might actually be situations where a ban is questionable upon accumulating enough infractions. Like if I hover nine infractions for a year which never expire and then the tenth one is just the one that broke the camels back and users feel like I didn't actually deserve to be banned over something so petty.

Quote from Jutsu

I'm saying that there might actually be situations where a ban is questionable upon accumulating enough infractions. Like if I hover nine infractions for a year which never expire and then the tenth one is just the one that broke the camels back and users feel like I didn't actually deserve to be banned over something so petty.

Oh I see. Well there are certain criteria you have to meet to be put on the permanent infraction list, and the purpose of the thing is essentially to have exactly that happen. It's to make sure that people aren't getting the maximum amount of infractions they can get and then waiting it out before breaking the rules again.
So yeah, I think that if you have like nine infractions and the last one leads to a ban a while later then it's completely justified. If we were to just dismiss those nine other infractions then there wouldn't be a point to you being on the list to begin with

I don't know if milestone bans are appropriate for reasons like this, though. That automated system lacks human consideration especially when infractions are usually not black and white. It's sometimes difficult to tell if someone is just intentionally waiting out their infractions or is putting reasonable effort into improving only to have something slip up unwittingly. Like if someone had 9/10 infraction points for harassing staff a year ago and then accidentally double posted, I don't think that warrants a ban, but if they defaulted back to harassing staff then I might agree with a ban depending on the circumstance. That's something the mods should decide per-user, not a sweeping system like what we have.

Quote from Drone

Oh I see. Well there are certain criteria you have to meet to be put on the permanent infraction list, and the purpose of the thing is essentially to have exactly that happen. It's to make sure that people aren't getting the maximum amount of infractions they can get and then waiting it out before breaking the rules again.
So yeah, I think that if you have like nine infractions and the last one leads to a ban a while later then it's completely justified. If we were to just dismiss those nine other infractions then there wouldn't be a point to you being on the list to begin with

But what is the criteria to be on that list exactly? I've shown time and time again that my infractions time out naturally and I can't remember a time that I was banned for actually exceeding the limit. Not because I'm some sort of devious rule bender, but because I don't actually break the rules that frequently. As far as I can tell the criteria is entirely up to the staffs whim and not actually static, which is why I called it "special treatment" list. I can't help but feel concerned about the arbitrary nature of it especially considering that all but one of my listed infractions are from a single moderator that consistently expresses bias against me. It'd be one thing if I was 2-D or Reconcile, a user known for abusing the infraction system. But I've never done such a thing.

There's one feature that I've seen in other forums that I think would fit nicely in the theme of transparency. When a post is infracted/warned, then the post in question is flagged with a mark that says "This post was infracted/warned" to the entire public.

Quote from Jutsu

But what is the criteria to be on that list exactly? I've shown time and time again that my infractions time out naturally and I can't remember a time that I was banned for actually exceeding the limit. Not because I'm some sort of devious rule bender, but because I don't actually break the rules that frequently. As far as I can tell the criteria is entirely up to the staffs whim and not actually static, which is why I called it "special treatment" list. I can't help but feel concerned about the arbitrary nature of it especially considering that all but one of my listed infractions are from a single moderator that consistently expresses bias against me. It'd be one thing if I was 2-D or Reconcile, a user known for abusing the infraction system. But I've never done such a thing.

Do you want me to discuss this here or via PMs?

Hm, well by that line of thinking the milestone bans should just be abolished entirely, yeah? But honestly I'm kind of against that, because with so few globals and the amount of activity within the ones we presently have, it would become kind if a clusterfuck trying to get anything done

But what is the criteria to be on that list exactly?

I would tell you but tbh I'm not sure if I'm allowed to?

Quote from Drone

I would tell you but tbh I'm not sure if I'm allowed to?

We can, but just not in public for the same reason we don't discuss infractions in public unless otherwise deemed necessary.

Quote from Drone

Hm, well by that line of thinking the milestone bans should just be abolished entirely, yeah? But honestly I'm kind of against that, because with so few globals and the amount of activity within the ones we presently have, it would become kind if a clusterfuck trying to get anything done

Well, yeah. I won't be making changes until we're absolutely prepared. The development of the new site wont suddenly be thrust upon everyone, there will be plenty of chances for beta testing and refining what we have. If we were to abolish the milestone bans we'd have a solid mod team to handle it. The new site will require a lot more mods anyway.

Quote from Raptor

We can, but just not in public for the same reason we don't discuss infractions in public unless otherwise deemed necessary.

Quote from Drone

I would tell you but tbh I'm not sure if I'm allowed to?

Then my question is, why not? If it's so logical and justifiable what is there to fear about it being common knowledge?

Just the fact that users don't even know they can be put on such a list is a little bothersome, you know what I mean?