Slipnot introduced a new EvC meta recently and is quickly becoming the Buzz due to its OPness if Chaos player does not play perfectly.

The whole build is a cheese:
www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay10171146&version=2.29
Wyz vs Myself (Wyz only did it to raise awareness of its opness, however I do feel it is beatable).

It is a fire start followed by miner spam, Putting on some fast mana, the charrog is created between 1 and 3 minutes, typically around 2 minutes flat, however I have seen as early as 58 seconds (< Me practicing vs DAZ).

More replays:
www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay10170208&version=2.29

Slipnot has only been using this for two days now, but it has the medium ranked member in chat, planning, I do not feel it will break the game to a top 10 ele leaderboard from 1900s players, but higher ranks who have been looking for a way to beat chaos, it has opened the door.

It is beatable, especially easier on shorts, where you can rush in your bombs to praying miners.
www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay10171185&version=2.29 this is an example of good short map play vs the Cheese.

^^ Is the most viable option, and could very well be the only option. I do feel it needs awareness raised, as it is difficult to defeat if you do not properly Defend it.

I do feel b4 next big update (SW3) Ele needs a rebot, not so much on the base units, but things like gold return, and adding more mana required. (Buffs classic ele, nerfs DM)

Also:
Patch burrow Glitch, makes the build very much more OP.

Thoughts?

Quote from spino

Slipnot introduced a new EvC meta recently and is quickly becoming the Buzz due to its OPness if Chaos player does not play perfectly.

The whole build is a cheese:
www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay10171146&version=2.29
Wyz vs Myself (Wyz only did it to raise awareness of its opness, however I do feel it is beatable).

It is a fire start followed by miner spam, Putting on some fast mana, the charrog is created between 1 and 3 minutes, typically around 2 minutes flat, however I have seen as early as 58 seconds (< Me practicing vs DAZ).

More replays:
www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay10170330&version=2.29
www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay10170208&version=2.29

Slipnot has only been using this for two days now, but it has the medium ranked member in chat, planning, I do not feel it will break the game to a top 10 ele leaderboard from 1900s players, but higher ranks who have been looking for a way to beat chaos, it has opened the door.

It is beatable, especially easier on shorts, where you can rush in your bombs to praying miners.
www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay10171185&version=2.29 this is an example of good short map play vs the Cheese.

^^ Is the most viable option, and could very well be the only option. I do feel it needs awareness raised, as it is difficult to defeat if you do not properly Defend it.

I do feel b4 next big update (SW3) Ele needs a rebot, not so much on the base units, but things like gold return, and adding more mana required. (Buffs classic ele, nerfs DM)

Also:
Patch burrow Glitch, makes the build very much more OP.

Thoughts?

I am not a chaos player so don't get mad at me.

Couldn't you just rush bombs to his statue if you see the charrog coming and just garrison/build turrets/castle dead?

I watched your replays

tbh , charrog rush is viable, but kinda bad idea in my mind , may cost him the whole game in the beginning

I watched your second replay (the castle one) ,you mainly lost by your own mistake
1) your eco was way ahead of him before 1:30, he used fire start, yet he could not keep tower , and even worse he got Castle air
If I were you, I would just growing eco much faster instead of wasting gold on cat

2) you built cat and bomber at the same queue, lower efficiency .
3) at the moment he got his first charrog and rushed to you, you fell into panic and mass garrisoned your miners (which was the main reason that cost you the whole game)
You stopped your eco at that moment for almost 30 seconds, and he immediately caught up your eco at that time. At the same time, he was ready for the second charrog

4) You should not research turret , it takes a really long queue time (30 sec), and it does not help much. Castle dead is enough.

What you need to do is just to keep bombing out his eco . After he got castle air, just need to get miners and bring out your wing faster, that's it. Charrog is single target, only garrison the one he was attacking.

And when you play vs ele, you need bombers, not cats, 2-3 cats are enough already..

Once you got 2-3 wings, he would have died.

this is what I think so far. He charrog rushed me couple times, but I never lost once to his strat (tho I was playing as order)

p.s your first replay vs slipnot is CvC lol

dunno why this needs such an explanation

opponent rushes you with charrog, you rush his base

you have more troops, so you can take tower as well

to beat it you just cat mass

Slipnot used this tatic against me last night and I lost. The whole thing around this tatic shows how broken elemental is.
You can pressure with a earth and Fire and then make a unbeatable Ele tank attack miners. I was half asleep and only a noob so im sure this is a perfectly fair tatic along with ele opening with airs that chaos ant counter cause they have no early game ranged unit.

Cat mass is actualy a good idea i will try that next time. What if they start to make airs thou?

The post SW3 patch I hope it's a big patch lots of problems to fix. I hope we see albow mana reduction ele price changes and hell fists range buff

Also you say you played whyz and YOU think it's beatable. What does Whyz think?

not really , cat mass is surely a bad idea, especially cats are vulnerable to fire back kiting and charrog fire burn.

Also cats take a really long time to kill a charrog

Still the most efficient way is to kill his eco before his charrog can do anything.

For details, asked DAZ for the replay. DAZ (chaos) vs Wyzdm (ele, charrog rush), DAZ demonstrated a perfect counter to that.

Bomber start? Chaos may as well Turtle if that's possible. Haha Turret start

"It is beatable, especially easier on shorts"

Spino. What up. Charrog rush is more BS on med maps than short maps; cats run faster, more distance between charrog running, etc.

"The whole thing around this tatic shows how broken elemental is."

Ele is broken in many ways. I'm not concerned about this one, especially as you lost to slipnot, who is a much better player than you.

"Cat mass is actualy a good idea i will try that next time. What if they start to make airs thou?"

They invested into a fire start. If it's an early charrog, they don't have the gold to make an air asap.

"Bomber start? Chaos may as well Turtle if that's possible. Haha Turret start"

Are you high. Apart from that being a worse way to hold, you're opening yourself up to losing via standard play from ele.

---

Wyz does not think it's beatable. I think charrog rush is a perfectly valid strategy that should be used occasionally as an effective cheese, but should not be used consistently.

My BO:
Five Cats
Bomber Stream
Castle Dead when charrog's going to be in your base, split miners if he burrows (as long as you have a CD, he can't infinite jump permanently.)

What you're looking for, and aims of dealing with it:
> Fire start: You should immediately be wary of a possible charrog, so mentally prepare for it.
> Fire prods: Move cats back and forth, garrison and cycle out. Provided you don't royally screw up, this is nothing more than micro substance.
> First bombers coming out: Start threatening runs and fake outs (double back). If you can close the distance enough to KILL the fire, go for an immediate committal and punish hard. If you can shut it down right here, right now, the game is yours for the taking. More likely, your opposing player is solid enough to have consistent kiting abilities. In this case, none of your bombs should be used on his fire - it's either kill it, or don't; all too likely, it'll be a brief garrison (esp. on a short map) into a charrog, which you still cannot deal with, you were simply burning gold to buy sparse amount of times. Go for miners and bomb him. Cripple his economy. If he doesn't go to your base asap, you're simply buying more time. If he CEs, go for brief but full committal threats into miners. Also, CE of 300 delays the charrog rush further. Defensive measures SLOW down the rush.
> Charrog at your base: With threats on his base still available (cat, bomb or two) or threat cleared, he's at your base. You need to research the CD just before he gets there (efficient to spend gold as late as poss), prepare yourself to split miners vs an infinite jump but DO NOT stop mining, and stream bombs. Bombs and CD is a constant source of dps into his charrog. No matter how much he disrupts, as long as he suffered more you're on the winning end, as well as his inability to pressure after the first charrog is garrisoned/lost. You can run in 1 cat with bombs and keep on pressure onto his bombers, while ele has no way of killing miners on first row for cheap gold into a CD.

Quote from mysterybat

I watched your replays

tbh , charrog rush is viable, but kinda bad idea in my mind , may cost him the whole game in the beginning

I watched your second replay (the castle one) ,you mainly lost by your own mistake
1) your eco was way ahead of him before 1:30, he used fire start, yet he could not keep tower , and even worse he got Castle air
If I were you, I would just growing eco much faster instead of wasting gold on cat

2) you built cat and bomber at the same queue, lower efficiency .
3) at the moment he got his first charrog and rushed to you, you fell into panic and mass garrisoned your miners (which was the main reason that cost you the whole game)
You stopped your eco at that moment for almost 30 seconds, and he immediately caught up your eco at that time. At the same time, he was ready for the second charrog

4) You should not research turret , it takes a really long queue time (30 sec), and it does not help much. Castle dead is enough.

What you need to do is just to keep bombing out his eco . After he got castle air, just need to get miners and bring out your wing faster, that's it. Charrog is single target, only garrison the one he was attacking.

And when you play vs ele, you need bombers, not cats, 2-3 cats are enough already..

Once you got 2-3 wings, he would have died.

this is what I think so far. He charrog rushed me couple times, but I never lost once to his strat (tho I was playing as order)

p.s your first replay vs slipnot is CvC lol

Yea I understand, All my replays vs Slipnot are whachy, DAZ helped me figure it out. I haven't played slipnot since, but his is not as advanced as WyzDM's was, and I have a feeling I could stop it now. CvC vs slip? ok I can fix that :P

@Ase - In theory yes, but it is usually combined with, what seems to be an oddly timed Cair. You need at least one crawler to tank.

CD + Tower is expensive, best bet is probs CD >> a later (mid game) tower upgrade. 700 gold by around 2:45 is a lot.

@DAZ's Post
Best counter, unless a better one is dug out later. If he has no eco, you win.

Quote from DragonArcherZ

"It is beatable, especially easier on shorts"

Spino. What up. Charrog rush is more BS on med maps than short maps; cats run faster, more distance between charrog running, etc.

"The whole thing around this tatic shows how broken elemental is."

Ele is broken in many ways. I'm not concerned about this one, especially as you lost to slipnot, who is a much better player than you.

"Cat mass is actualy a good idea i will try that next time. What if they start to make airs thou?"

They invested into a fire start. If it's an early charrog, they don't have the gold to make an air asap.

"Bomber start? Chaos may as well Turtle if that's possible. Haha Turret start"

Are you high. Apart from that being a worse way to hold, you're opening yourself up to losing via standard play from ele.

---

Wyz does not think it's beatable. I think charrog rush is a perfectly valid strategy that should be used occasionally as an effective cheese, but should not be used consistently.

My BO:
Five Cats
Bomber Stream
Castle Dead when charrog's going to be in your base, split miners if he burrows (as long as you have a CD, he can't infinite jump permanently.)

What you're looking for, and aims of dealing with it:
> Fire start: You should immediately be wary of a possible charrog, so mentally prepare for it.
> Fire prods: Move cats back and forth, garrison and cycle out. Provided you don't royally screw up, this is nothing more than micro substance.
> First bombers coming out: Start threatening runs and fake outs (double back). If you can close the distance enough to KILL the fire, go for an immediate committal and punish hard. If you can shut it down right here, right now, the game is yours for the taking. More likely, your opposing player is solid enough to have consistent kiting abilities. In this case, none of your bombs should be used on his fire - it's either kill it, or don't; all too likely, it'll be a brief garrison (esp. on a short map) into a charrog, which you still cannot deal with, you were simply burning gold to buy sparse amount of times. Go for miners and bomb him. Cripple his economy. If he doesn't go to your base asap, you're simply buying more time. If he CEs, go for brief but full committal threats into miners. Also, CE of 300 delays the charrog rush further. Defensive measures SLOW down the rush.
> Charrog at your base: With threats on his base still available (cat, bomb or two) or threat cleared, he's at your base. You need to research the CD just before he gets there (efficient to spend gold as late as poss), prepare yourself to split miners vs an infinite jump but DO NOT stop mining, and stream bombs. Bombs and CD is a constant source of dps into his charrog. No matter how much he disrupts, as long as he suffered more you're on the winning end, as well as his inability to pressure after the first charrog is garrisoned/lost. You can run in 1 cat with bombs and keep on pressure onto his bombers, while ele has no way of killing miners on first row for cheap gold into a CD.

Not really I only injected myself with a injection labelled Spino's super stickempires special serum guaranteed to make you a 2k player in one day

wait maybe this is a better explanation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfYMV2kmCUU


Change Raheem to lewis thou

Quote from lewislewis

Not really I only injected myself with a injection labelled Spino's super stickempires special serum guaranteed to make you a 2k player in one day

wait maybe this is a better explanation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfYMV2kmCUU


Change Raheem to lewis thou

What the fuck did I ever do to you. Now your being an ass to me like I said your shit. Plus -- If you post Because I got high, please do the original.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzjkw
For future reference.

Whats the matter Spino feeling a little salty?

You must be jealous of my clashing skills!

Also i have another one for you! Orginal another for you?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U5TqIdff_DQ

The point about the "Are You High" in DAZ's post, is a turret start isn't macro. It is stupid and has absolutely nothing to do with me.

You serious belived I was being serious notice the haha.

You prepared to listen to my serious opinion and respect it? Good i think crawlers are the right way to beat it

Quote from lewislewis

You serious belived I was being serious notice the haha.

You prepared to listen to my serious opinion and respect it? Good i think crawlers are the right way to beat it

Burn and charrog jump hurts crawlers a little much for that, then again maybe animation cancel is the way to go.