Right, folks. You’ve heard me say that I was going to do this some day, and today is that day. Here’s a rant. Read it if you want to know, what I believe, can make or undo a good character. I’ve put these into chapters. Read ‘em one after the other. I hope this can help people!

These are my opinions and suggestions. I may preach this stuff passionately, but I'm not trying to create any golden rules here.

s. Powers are, obviously, very important. You devise the powers for the character and you can build a story around them. But how should you organise powers, if at all? Welp, I'll tell you how I do it.

See, 90% of wRHG characters are, at their very base, human. And your average humanoid character should have a primary power, a secondary power, a physical enhancement and maybe one or two very small things for character effect.
If you’re going for a duo, you should have each character have a secondary effect since the fact that there is two people should count as primary enough.
If you’re going for something that is not human, well, then things get messy. You’ll have to rewrite the whole being from the ground up. Don’t do this unless you’re utterly confident in your skills of balancing. These things can get OP pretty damn fast.

First off! Primary powers. These are the main abilities of characters. If you’re going with a single character, they certainly need this. It is their most useful tool, their most prominent power, it covers a wide range of utilities. It can be, say, telekinesis, teleportation, a magic sword, etc. BUT! It should never be a clusterfuck. I’ll get to that in the Toolbox part later on. Also, note, try to avoid impracti-cool weapons like scythes. (FYI, the scythe is a farming tool meant to reap crops. It was given to the grim reaper because souls are his crop. When he swings it, it’s like a farmer reaping crops. It’s not a bloody weapon.)

Secondary powers. They should compliment primary ones. If you have a magic sword for a primary, maybe have a shield or a magic piece of armour. If you have a big-ass gun for a primary, use a pistol for a secondary. The primary should make up about 60-70% of the user’s power, whereas the secondary can make up 40-30%.

Physical enhancements. You are pitting your character in a world full of other characters! They’re going to need some sort of physical thing to help them deal with, and against, all these amazing people. Will they have armour for more defence? Will they be strong, agile and trained in parkour? Will they be super smart? These sorta things. Be reasonable with them, they should match the character.

And as for the one or two small things for character effect, these should be things that only make up about 2% of a character’s power. Not made for fighting. Made for character themself.

Example! My character, Trench. Primary power is he carries a shotgun that comes with a bayonet and three pouches of ammo, each pouch holding different types of shell. Secondary power, he has a trench knife that lets him deal strong melee hits and, when he runs out of shotgun ammo, duel-wield with his bayonet for effective melee. Physical enhancement, he wears a ballistic mask and armour that lets him take hits. And, for the extra little thing for character effect, his boots can kick down doors easily.

That character is accepted to be badass. Rightly so. And he’s easy to use and understand.

REMEMBER. Your character must not only be fun for YOU to write, but for your opponent to write, and also for the spectators to read. If these people have to constantly check your character page as they’re writing/reading, you have gone horribly wrong.[/spoiler]

? Well, I'll tell you.

Imagine a toolbox. Bear with me here. No- put the giant paws away, I mean the other kind of bare. Yeah.

A toolbox. A metal box holding a bunch of different tools. Various screwdrivers, a saw maybe. Sandpaper. Glue gun. Allen keys. That sorta thing. When you come across something that needs tooling, you just reach in, grab the perfect tool made for it, and tool that sonuvabitch. Your toolbox lets you tool anything.

And then there's multitools. A swiss army knife. Holds a flat screwdriver head, some knives, corkscrew, etc. Now, it's not as full as a toolbox, but it's neat, it's classy and it's a single tool, not multiple tools for separate individual things. It's one thing you can use that covers the ground of many things, but not all things.


You may have caught on to what I'm talking about. If not, now's the time for me to break subtlety. Character powers.


If your character has five different powers then something's wrong. You've read my Primary, Secondary and Physical power part, haven't you? It's up there. Above this one. Well, some people like to give their characters more than one primary power. They like to have powers that cover all things, or near enough all. They're toolboxes. They're a mess, a clutter of powers just thrown together with some weak structure that could only stand up in that writer's mind, where physics don't apply and the points don't matter.

Thing is about fighting a toolbox is that it's gonna suck. You think you have the upper hand? Nope, turns out they have a thing for that too. Honestly, the biggest excuse for this sort of thing is "omg it’s ok since they'll not write it all and they’ll limit it for entertainment lol" no no no no no leave get out close the door and go into a door store and close all THOSE doors and then go into a glassware shop and smash all the jars since I want you to make sure nothing is a jar when you shut your goddamn doors and goddamn LEAVE ALREADY. I'm talking about characters. I'm talking about what people see when they read them. Using them is different. I'm about character potential here.

It's not fun to fight against someone who has the potential to cover all ground. Sure, they might have weaknesses (or only limits if you're wanting to be a TRUE tool) but they're gonna have to dodge around all your tools to get there and it's gonna be tedious and unfun.


But. A multitool. Ahaha, I love it. If you have a bunch of stuff to deal with individual things, you lose creativity. You may create the illusion of it but really, no. Having something that you can bend and contort and can cover a range of things by itself is great. Having a secondary ability to further enhance that is great too. But remember, even if a swiss army knife is a multitool, it can't have all tools. It covers a good area, but still leaves plenty of room. And the fun is, sometimes, you fiddle around a bit and you dig your nail in and find a tool in there that you had no clue about.

Examples! A toolbox power would be a magic wand with a list of 20-odd spells. A multi-tool power would be a dagger that could cut through anything. The wand can have a spell for most situations, if not all, but the dagger is a tool that can be used to do many things. Unlock doors, disarm weapons, attack, it can depend on whatever situation you’re in!

Oh, and note about multi-tools. If you’re going to have a power like “guy can generate material he can mold into anything he wants and make it as hard as steel” then you’re pretty much doing this with a multitool. Come on, man. At least balance that shit heavily.

See, toolboxes lack creativity and can cover most possible applications. Multitools inspire creativity and cover a good portion of applications. And that is the Toolbox Effect.[/spoiler]



mean do you want your character to have a power that’s, well, common? In RHG this would be speed, swords and electricity. In wRHG we have to worry about alt. formes, toolbox powers (can you summon a malleable thing to take the form of various things? Is it energy/oil/chi/whatever? that’s toolbox) which can get boring and eventually would lead up to one character fighting another, but both having the same (though differently worded/named) power. No thanks.

This is what I’d rather you do. Don’t ditch that power. BUT! Put a creative twist on it. A spin. Make it fun and unusual. Can you teleport? Do it so you can only teleport when completely out of sight. Telekinetic? You want to give them a sword that has powers? Why not a dagger that DISABLES powers! Come on, guys. Be original.

I don’t want to see rehashed trash done by noobs who wanna imitate the greats. Put in some work.[/spoiler]

ral. Naff being slang for bad. it’s a Brit thing. This part is all about personality.

I’ve come across the term “brick wall.” When a character is a brick wall, it means that talking to them is like, well, talking to a brick wall. Don’t treat characters like they’re only there to advance the plot. Don’t give them shallow personalities.

I know it’s hard to list these things in the Personality section alone, but don’t forget! You have a demo to write too! Explore on the character. Make them believable. True, it can take a long time to get someone with depth, so don’t worry. Just start by trying and evolve the character through your works. Maybe write a standalone story now and then? Plenty of character interaction too, please.

And also, remember this. It’s hard to write a sociopathic and/or evil character without it being, well, edgy. Since Azure dislikes that word, I’ve come up with synonyms. High school gothic cool. Angsty. Preteen dreams. Yeah.

Do you want to make a villain? Well, remember that the good, best, (non-comical) villains do not want to hurt for the sake of hurting. People who are seen as evil are people who are convinced they are doing what is needed, what is right.

There was once a person who grew up in a country that was suffering. He entered politics, and with amazing speech skills, he promised greatness for the country and he damn well achieved it. Until he started going crazy and killed millions. But people went along with it because they followed his delusions! Yes, Hitler is evil. Anyone who commits mass murder of such a scale can only be perceived as sinister. But remember, to do such a thing he needed the help of hundreds of thousands. Are they as evil as he was? They were as deluded as he was.

True evil happens when a person believes they’re doing good, but for some reason (maybe a bad upbringing, maybe they’re a sociopath, maybe mentally unstable, many reasons) they go about it wrongly.

You should never have your character hurt for the sake of hurting. Handyman has a habit of pinning bodies on walls and tearing their mouths open into a gory, gruesome smile. He does this because he has been lonely since time immemorial and this is the closest he can ever get to making children, to friends like him. They are dolls with faces, also contorted into massive smiles, to comfort his loneliness.

BUT! What if you want your characters to be edgy because… you actually do think that “high school gothic cool” is, well, actually cool? You are most likely a teenager. If your age starts with a 1, rethink thyself. Maybe you’ve watched a little bit too much Hellsing or The Matrix. black trench coats, sunglasses, people going “psssh...nothin personnel....kid…” or wields katanas or- just stop reading the gothic mangas, research shit and go for the type of cool that all can appreciate. I don’t want any of your marty stu/mary sue characters that listen to linkin park in their relax time and share dank memes on the internet.

Also, past stories! Each page has a section for a story to tell you how that character got where they are. You need not do massive detail, but remember that everything a person is, is because of their past. Say, if a big point in their life was almost drowning, they may become a hydrophobe. Perhaps due to the loss of a loved one they are disconnected, or maybe because of the gain of a loved one they are sensitive. (And if you want to use a big organisation in your past or something, nip to my wRHG organisation resource thread! I will talk about character origins in the next chapter.

Then there’s contradictions. I shouldn’t need to say this, but don’t say one thing and have another happen. If you say your character doesn’t like killing, then don’t have them end up killing people acting all bloodthirsty and rampage-y! If they’re not a weapon user, don’t give them weapons. Come on. Make sense here.

So uh, that’s me talking about characters’ characters. Had no real structure to this one like the previous ones.[/spoiler]


Your character is going to be unique! But remember, that doesn’t mean every part of their past has to be unique, or in some cases, that doesn’t mean every part of their past has to roughly match the past of most goddamn unique characters.

Loved ones died so you went out to avenge? Escaped lab experiment? (even though they test stuff on bloody mice and monkeys first?) Are you going to push your introverted and bullied past onto them? Well, it’s good to write from experience, so I’m not against any of these. IF. IIIF. You do what you should do with cliche powers, and put a goddamn original twist on them.

Loved ones died? You’re lonely so you set out to find a new family. Escaped lab experiment? How about lab experiment set free, but you wish to return because the only ones like you are trapped in the same captivity you were all that time ago. Introverted and bullied past? What if you were the bully, and you had to write about what sort of things pushed you towards acting like that, followed by the path to bettering yourself into an actual respectable character.

Conflicts! They are good. They give you goals other than “punch other person in face until you win.” Conflicts give characters… character. Dreams, hopes, goals for them to reach. Maybe you want to give them a rival? A companion? The more your character talks, the more they show emotions and feel, the more realistic and believable they can get. Just try not to make them into brick walls or purely there to advance the plot.

Remember, if you feel like you’re using a cliche, or something that you feel is just too common, put an original twist on it. Guide it towards building character. Don’t try to make

I found this very helpful; thank you for the time and effort put into it, Waffles ^_^

There is nothing wrong with having a cliche as fuck backstory. The problem is treating it as if it were an afterthought.

Quote from WafflesMgee

Is it energy/oil/chi/whatever? that’s toolbox) which can get boring and eventually would lead up to one character fighting another, but both having the same (though differently worded/named) power.

I don’t want to see rehashed trash done by noobs who wanna imitate the greats. Put in some work.

I didn't know I was considered one of the greats.

Quote from Veir

I didn't know I was considered one of the greats.

I meant the folks who like to use scarves and shit because one of the greats used them, RHG-wise.

Quote from Veir

I didn't know I was considered one of the greats.

Well people seem to think I am for some reason, considering you beat me then that would make you one too. Although, I don't really think I'm that grand yet.

well it seems like I have just read this and I will say I do agree on a lot of points but the only thing I might not agree on would be the thing about Main powers because one fighter may have a couple of main powers and balance it out very well with some over whelming weaknesses.

Quote from digkid

well it seems like I have just read this and I will say I do agree on a lot of points but the only thing I might not agree on would be the thing about Main powers because one fighter may have a couple of main powers and balance it out very well with some over whelming weaknesses.

Here is my argument.
A character having multiple main powers can be really annoying to animate/write or just overwhelming.
For example, a character has fire and wind powers.
He might type: Oh you can counter him by water and stuff but nothing else.
Sure, water is a overwhelming weakness, he might die by it, but what if he is facing a swordsman?
It is much simpler to have one main ability you can focus on, not multiple ones that confuse everything.
At least that's what I think.

Thank you for making this Mgee...
*looks at all spoilers
*takes notes
I'm going to use this as a basis for my wRHGs from now on... :D
It also gives me an EPIC idea...but maybe I'll leave you guys in suspense till I reveal what I'm going to do.
Otherwise there is no anticipation...

Heehee...

Quote from Cassandra

It also gives me an EPIC idea...but maybe I'll leave you guys in suspense till I reveal what I'm going to do.

I can bet that your surprise would unknowingly break every single one of Waffle's checkpoints.

Quote from Haru

Here is my argument.
A character having multiple main powers can be really annoying to animate/write or just overwhelming.
For example, a character has fire and wind powers.
He might type: Oh you can counter him by water and stuff but nothing else.
Sure, water is a overwhelming weakness, he might die by it, but what if he is facing a swordsman?
It is much simpler to have one main ability you can focus on, not multiple ones that confuse everything.
At least that's what I think.

Just Fire and Wind manipulation isn't as bad as you think. But let's say, fire and "shadow" manipulation, healing, the creation of crystals, shadow teleportation, sword skills, a demon form, etc. would get overwhelming.
Yes, I just blatantly slammed someone else's character. Come at me.

'Nother tip.

Remember that it's not you who writes your char. Remember that you will always know more about your char than you write down in their page since that char will be constantly developing in your head, and that if you decided to fabricate and log every detail about them, then their character page could become massive.

Make them easy enough to understand, to describe, to portray. When you write them you don't need any help with them (since you made them,) and you will have fun with them because you made them to have fun with. But. You have to make it so that your character is fun for other people too. Fun for your opponent to write without them constantly needing to ascertain details from you. Fun for the readers to read without needing to keep various pages tabbed in case they need to research as they read. Characters are for everyone, y'all. Not just y'allself.

I am taking this here because this is your thread and this is a topic you seem very passionate about. So let's debate shall we:

Quote from RichardLongflop

If a character doesn't outwardly state that they're not human, we can assume taht every character is human, therefore human weaknesses and strengths apply.

Wrong. Your assumption is a result of characters being made in the past to all be statistically human. Imagine if the majority of the wRHG Roster were actually aliens, demons, monsters, and ghosts. Suddenly, stating that you're human isn't such a weird thing after all, even though stating that you're any of those other choices is also still a necessary choice. When someone states that their character is human, it is not because they're being redundant, but because they're differentiating to anyone who might want to state otherwise.

Quote from RichardLongflop

If he (Sacred) notes the weaknesses of a human, why doesn't he say the benefits? Adrenlaine? Immune system? Pursuit hunting? Adaptability? Intelligence? Or, purely by not mentioning that part of being human, does he forfeit?

Just so everyone knows what I'm talking about, Waffles here is talking about this statement:

Quote from Sacred

Weaknesses:
Sacred himself is not physically strong. While his power may carry the utmost strength, his actual body is still human. Direct blows will still hurt him, but his body's endurance has been strongly heightened allowing him to take more hits.

Of all the boneheaded things to pick on, you just had to pick the one that actually makes sense the most. I would say that I agree with Waff in that if you're stating just Human Weakness that's kinda vague and unnecessary (although not really as you will see in my point below). But. In Sacred's case, he actually states this thing right before the Weakness statement:

Quote from Sacred

Abilities:
Molecular Manipulation. A mysterious force runs through his body, allowing him to affect what's around him down to the quantum level. This includes being able to heal himself.

See, Sacred's eponymous character has the ability to heal using quantum shit. This is an ability can be very dangerously OP considering the implications. But by juxtaposing it alongside "Human Weakness" and even going as far as to explain not just the 2 words that send a chill down Waffles' spine, Sacred is stating that he can feel pain with a heightened endurance than most people. He implies of his increased physical resistance, if only a bit, because his body can repair itself at will. In no way does this make "Human Weakness" redundant than if he just opted not to include his Weakness statement at all. And in fact if he did, he would have seemed more OP than he already is.

So to address Waff's statement, yes. He does say the benefits. Or did the "increased endurance" part of his statement just fall on deaf ears just because it's another stupid Human thing for you.

Quote from RichardLongflop

Thing is, if you're gonna filler up the Weaknesses with 'being human' you ought to fill up the Abilities with it, too. Elsewise, don't include it. And, in this chase, what are you left with? "He's a little weak but he's got a strong power and also can take more hits than normal." Whoaohaoh. That's not really Weaknesses now, is it?

I have already proven that Sacred already did as you have said, and that your zeal is a result of being blind to reading between the lines.

And if you're going to nitpick like this then I might as well also mention that there is no such word as Elsewise. You bring shame to programmers and English schoolteachers everywhere. Possibly, you make anyone at a medieval fair cringe as well.

Quote from RichardLongflop

Ayo Sacred I'm just gonna link this instead of ranting on any further. I got no ill will towards you, but it's pretty obvious I get tetchy 'bout these subjects.

You are a pretentious asshat who thinks that just because someone writes a character that rubs you the wrong way, gives you a right to correct them because you've "Seen it All Before" and that no one has contested your statements. Well first, you just criticized Sacred, a wRHG user that has been around before you, before a time when this bullshit with Human Weakness wasn't so much an issue as it is just a lack on the understanding behind character creation that can be easily rectified with showing newbs how to be more creative. Second, you are not acutelatios or any of the Primal WL-ers who have since the beginnings of this craft not seen an issue with this at all. So you have no right to criticize harshly on the evils of Human Weakness then explain nothing else other than it gives you physical pain apparently.

At best, you're just an overzealous fan and I think we've all been there before. I understand. But your tone and words were not helpful in the slightest. They imply that this thread you've made and that your wisdom are Golden Rules to live by. Sorry, but no official entity really approved this so you've no right to twist anyone's thought process on this by force.



And while I'm here I might as well strike at the core of the issue and offer another side of the story so you can all think for yourselves what's proper and not just take Waffle's rambling as gospel.

Quote from RichardLongflop

BEING. HUMAN.

DHSGHSHDSADHGHH.

As I said earlier, 90% of wRHG/RHG characters are human. We get it. You ever hear of that saying, "When all is X, nothing is X"? It's like that. When everyone's human, THERE'S NO GODDAMN NEED TO MENTION IT. People think human's a goddamn weakness. Well, it's not. It's as much of a strength as it is a weakness. You hear of the feats humans can pull off? Don't use the damn thing as filler. Don't think it's a weakness. It's a race. It's a state. It should be up there between "Age" and "Name."

First off, no such saying exists. Google doesn't offer anything concrete. So I don't know wtf Waffles is talking about. He's just concocting a vague quote so he can use his own logic to apply.

Aside from my statistics example all the way up there in this post, I'd just like to add that having 90% wRHGs is not a permanent Status Quo. There was a time when demons were popular and so most of the new wRHGs became demons. Some of them were also half-demons and in those cases there might've been a reason to say that "Human Weakness" was a legit weakness. Just because the majority right now are humans, doesn't mean that you're obligated to be one and it certainly doesn't mean you have to restrict yourself from saying that being Human is a weakness.

Quote from RichardLongflop

In fact, I've found a way to deal with this in my own way. Every time you see "Being Human" or some rephrasing thereof, this is how you should read it:

Weakness: Being Human - This character is crazy weak. I mean, you cut their skin- and I mean even paper could do that- and it will annoy them. Forget adrenaline letting them forget the pain, that's a human strength. You see "Human" on the abilities list? No? No adrenaline for you. And oh boy, bones. Like, SO breakable. And the head? Hah. A good thump and they're unconscious. Seriously. A human with both human abilities and weaknesses would goddamn DESTROY a human with only human weaknesses.

Tadaa. If you have some excuse in your head, please go away. You're automatically wrong.

First off, "Human Weakness" as a problem weakness had its roots in the RHG. It wasn't because it was assumed to have already existed, but because it was not really helpful to animate about. So in that context, Human Weakness was a problem. But in the written medium, it's even more visible and plausible to write about. So the same stigma just doesn't apply and in fact strengthens it.

What everyone needs to understand is that the example that Waffles gave on the perception of Human Weakness is an exaggerated implication of what HE thinks Human Weakness is whenever someone mentions Human Weakness. This is proven in Sacred's case where Waffles just basically went batshit insane at the mere mention of the phrase and immediately assumed that's what Sacred must've meant just because of its misconstruing vagueness. But as I have shown, the case was justified and Waffles was just blind to the whole character makeup.

Waffles seems to think that "Having a Human Weakness" is an All or Nothing statement. That if you don't mention it, then it's always there to be assumed and taken into consideration. But Human Weakness can be used to justify an existing power or to state the limits in which a Character can withstand. Captain America isn't as strong as Superman because if he tried to lift a building he'll get a hernia. That's HIS human weakness. The Flash can run at the speed of lightning but if he trips, the physics will fuck him up as he stumbles at the inertia of an out of control rhino. That's HIS Human Weakness. Human Weakness is not something that should be avoided and treated as a redundant curse. It must be used to further flesh out what exactly are the limits of this Human. Until what point does he decide it's over for him.





When I first saw this topic, I thought nothing of it. I read it, and figured it was highly unnecessary. I even offered a tiny point of criticism (see 3rd post of this thread) to start off a potential debate. But after seeing Waffles' obnoxious and disrespectful display of forcibly dictating how to and not to make a "good character", I feel that this thread's original purpose has gone too far. I can even go as far as to say that ToolBox characters are okay and as mentioned in my 3rd post, a cliche'd backstory is NOT a problem. Don't look at this thread and assume that this is the absolute rule to proper wRHG character making. It's not.

It's just the ramblings of a highly-opinionated wRHG fanboy.

As I do say, people who are human are assumed to have human weaknesses and abilities. Sure, humans vary. When I wrote this I was thinking of purely physical traits, but well, you pointed out that there's more than that.

Humans vary. Some are skinny, some are strong, some can focus and multitask, some are absent-minded and clumsy. Some are white and burn easily, some are black and don't. People that evolved in different parts of the Earth might as well be considered a variation of the specie, but they're all classified as human. So any noteworthy human traits of your char can, and should, be mentioned. It's just that flat-out saying "human" as a weakness is a very vague thing. If you don't specify on what, (which is the job of the personality and physical description part,) then I'm just going to take it that you're saying their weakness is that they're Homo sapien. When you're that vague, might as well list it as a power too.

And yes, I am easily irritable. There are reasons behind that, and though I do apologise for me being like that, I'm gonna have to apologise for me being like that in future too. It's not something that's gonna change in a hurry.

I had all this stuff written up prior to posting this thread, some maybe even a year before. I had sent them around to people, they seemed to agree with it. But I'll make sure to revise this thread (and I'll try to remove my hoity-toity "my opinions > your opinions" attitude from it.)

I'm honestly more curious about that quote you were trying to pass off as legit. Where did you hear it and does it actually exist? XD

Also I agree with your 2nd paragraph. I already mentioned that when HW is used solely to justify all weakness then it is not a good practice, but there is a difference between complete abolition and incomplete weakness. One needs to clarify the extent of HW, not shun it altogether.

Of course you're irritable. You're British. That's like a trait that just doesn't go away. Reading your posts has been really fun, fast, and snobby to my ears. I love it.

Well of course they'd agree with it. You've just pointed out trends that alot of people are doing. If you point out something that's been affecting their environment, then they'll be sure to agree with you. But you don't bother to explain why or how they came about or offer solutions and alternatives to the issues at hand. It's almost just "Don't do this, okay."

There's also no point of contention so they can't debate about the issue presented upon them. I've already offered pts for HW for example, but I can also offer pts for Toolboxes. For example, Toolboxes aren't really bad. But they make or break a creator's ability to be creative, and that's okay. When you make a Toolbox, you're basically setting yourself up for a challenge as to whether or not you can handle managing all this swag as a writer. Many noob writers do not, and will revamp their character to something simpler. But some slip through the cracks like ErrorBlender who has A TON of swag and he's totally fine with that because the wall he voluntarily put up became the challenge he toppled successfully. Either way, giving up and succeeding are both learning experiences for the writer, and one shouldn't disapprove Toolboxes just because they make no sense.

In addition, Toolboxes actually give the writer added risk. Sure, they just gave every which way to beat the opponent. They're unstoppable. Well, not really because for every swag item they include that they think can beat someone, they also inadvertently offer another pt of weakness to their arsenal. They don't have to mention it in their Weakness to realize that the megaman part in question has their own limitations and faults.