Elementals has no "sample army" lol

Exactly, it has so many builds and so much diversity. It's what makes it great or confusing depending on your perspective.

Well then what about finding some replays from the top tier tournament matches in FiU and we log all the unit purchases? I should be able to get up a graph of the GC and GC/P as the game progresses each min.

Also interestingly enough the Treature had the lowest GC/P out of any unit - hardly surprising but still.

I think we should move to a new thread though

Another thing I want to say, 138 vs 126 isn't much of a difference. Less than 10%.

Quote from AsePlayer

Elementals has no "sample army" lol

Basically this^^

It conforms to the given army comp of the opponent and can hardly play outright.

Quote from PUMU

Basically this^^

It conforms to the given army comp of the opponent and can hardly play outright.

Ele has options. Reliable options, that's a different story.

Quote from AsePlayer

Ele has options. Reliable options, that's a different story.

Ill break down those "options" into sections of each moment of... lets say EvO

Early Game-
3 Earth start< first earth to tower+ other two to miners< cap tower for +40 if opponent archer starts/stall if sword with one earth< after archer begins the approach or swords become troublesome, move back to base with earth and garrison or morph as applicable and begin eco stall if pressured or build as normal if not.< aim for tree shortly after first row of gold is filled up (weak earths/miners are to be placed on mana)< follow tree with another and then a fire


Early-Mid
Follow with an upgrade and another fire as applicable< another tree and another fire at your discretion< an extra water and upgrades as you see the need (water is for scorch defense)

Mid
HEAVILY DEPENDENT ON HOW MUCH PRESSURE AND WHAT ARMY COMP YOU FACE make the following as you should see fit: V(s) w/clones (to steal spears and merics ((this allows you to use your scorps' poison to the fullest extent.)), Cycloids w/tornado x2

Mid-Late
Keep up the pressure by pushing for ts1 and more V's and/or waters as you see fit.

Late
Send your trees to die as they are useless pop space and should be replaced with waters and maybe airs if the situation rewards such.

Charrogs seem relatively lack luster in general against the order player that plays correctly seeing how charrog isnt as cost efficient with requiring one to remove both a fire and an earth to build.
You have many more options when attempting to go into trees as opposed to the other as you have the ability to go into your trees whilst still being able to keep your ranged units, thus granting you a tank, a seige factor, DOT with upgrades that doesnt need to be activated and is passive, your ranged unit possibility to go into scorch.
In the process of creating a charrog you have less cost effective options with increased micro requirements. To illustrate what im trying to convey.

Charrog:
Pros-
Extremely tanky
Burn ability cannot be cured
Cons-
Burn is Significantly less influential damage output wise as opposed to that of poison DOT
Initial Dps from melee is relatively insignificant for the cost
Requires one to sacrifice a ranged unit and one earth

Tree:
Pros-
Costs less
Death blossom snipes weakened units (and restores a sliver of health that isnt really worth 2 grains of salt but hey... its a thing.)
Spawns units that respawn shortly after death
Units that spawn can deal poison DOT
Cons-
Less Tanky than Charrog
must remain still and rooted to be of use.

Thats basically it.

For the mid game you said it was heavily dependent on what build you face and how much pressure you take. Can you elaborate on that? Maybe you could list the different army comps you would be most likely to face and how to fight them, or idk? And are infernos useful when you've pushed them back to base?

Also, those symbols make it a bit hard to read.

Quote from nutsophast

For the mid game you said it was heavily dependent on what build you face and how much pressure you take. Can you elaborate on that? Maybe you could list the different army comps you would be most likely to face and how to fight them, or idk? And are infernos useful when you've pushed them back to base?

Also, those symbols make it a bit hard to read.

The different army comps your opponent could make in that scenario i went over above is:
sword/archer/meric= tree/fire/water/V(+cycloid)

albow turtle= tree/fire/cycloid/V/water

Ninjarcher= basically nothing as shadows can escape freeze. Hope to catch some archers with your cycloids after setting up your trees and shiz otherwise good luck and godmicro for your units.

^these

shadalbow? Is spear/archer/meric basically teh same counter? What about turtles?

Quote from nutsophast

shadalbow? Is spear/archer/meric basically teh same counter? What about turtles?

Easiest to deal with. You only need 3 airs to start sniping the archers. If there are a lot of archers, use meteors and the dragon thing. Do not make the inferno until you are ready to use the spell though. If the order player does have a ninja, the ninja won't be able to kill your inferno before you cast the spell.

With turtles infernos are your best friend. Casting spells with Infernos makes it so your opponent has two options, take massive damage and losses or move. With them turtling they have no where to go but into their base. Continue to drive them back until you catch their miners in spell and they surrender, or you do enough damage to their statue while they are hiding in their base.

Best way to counter ninja massing is to make a decent amount of airs, waters and chargs. Do no have a lot of fires just standing around. Make sure to turn all fires into chargs except one or two for building infernos or explosion. Be patient and choose your attack wisely. when you are ready to attack make a inferno right before the two empires clash. This was cause the Order player to target the inferno and will throw off their counter. You should be able to get a spell off before you lose your inferno (sometimes they don't target at all) Either put a dragon right under their archers if they have any, put meteors on their miners or simply put meteors on the ground where you know the ninjas will run through.

If done correctly the ninjas would have used their vanish already to attack the inferno and will be caught by waters and will be unable to get unfrozen. nuke them down with chargs meele and fire attack, airs and if you have a fire an explosion.

Quote from ArchyBeatz

Easiest to deal with. You only need 3 airs to start sniping the archers. If there are a lot of archers, use meteors and the dragon thing. Do not make the inferno until you are ready to use the spell though. If the order player does have a ninja, the ninja won't be able to kill your inferno before you cast the spell.

With turtles infernos are your best friend. Casting spells with Infernos makes it so your opponent has two options, take massive damage and losses or move. With them turtling they have no where to go but into their base. Continue to drive them back until you catch their miners in spell and they surrender, or you do enough damage to their statue while they are hiding in their base.

Best way to counter ninja massing is to make a decent amount of airs, waters and chargs. Do no have a lot of fires just standing around. Make sure to turn all fires into chargs except one or two for building infernos or explosion. Be patient and choose your attack wisely. when you are ready to attack make a inferno right before the two empires clash. This was cause the Order player to target the inferno and will throw off their counter. You should be able to get a spell off before you lose your inferno (sometimes they don't target at all) Either put a dragon right under their archers if they have any, put meteors on their miners or simply put meteors on the ground where you know the ninjas will run through.

If done correctly the ninjas would have used their vanish already to attack the inferno and will be caught by waters and will be unable to get unfrozen. nuke them down with chargs meele and fire attack, airs and if you have a fire an explosion.

Correcting somethings.
Infernoes I feel do best in EvE situations or at best an extreme lead finish.

Cycloids are not only untargetable by shadows but can hit and run much easier as opposed to the inferno. Two with tornado sweeps whatever number of archers you happen to catch and can set you up for scorch without costing you your fires.
You also already have an anti-air unit out.
V's also do the job you need more so than your inferno as you can always get to his miners after removing the threat of his army which should be your primary concern; this instead of spending your fires on charrogs which do little more for you anyhow and don't directly impede the opponents turtle as hard as V(s)

I think charrogs should do a bit more than just tank, swords should also do more (although this is off topic).

I find infernos can be great when defending, 2 infernos can effectively lock down an area so archers can't pass. Could be used offensively. I find the meteors are better on turtles than tornado and are easier to use sometimes.

V is an awesome unit, again doesn't have the mass clearing potential like infernos.

Cycloids/V's used in conjunction with one another is my main turtle break composition. You keep your opponent in check with how close he is with his archers as the tornado spell isn't as avoidable as the pool and Vastolis; infernos can still be targeted by shadows at any given moment and are more susceptible to death from different units of basically every kind.

Well, I find tornado is more avoidable as you can simply stand back from the wall. Meteors + dragon can immediately push back archers so they can't shoot. But truth be told I haven't tried V + Cycloid a lot. Anyway, each to his own.