Well, if God doesn't step in because he wants to see how stuff pans out, then why worship something like that?

I didn't say that's what he was doing, I was using it as an example. I thought you of all people would have figured that much.

Quote from Fluxinator

You only need to look at the earth. Then again, if God does exist, why doesn't he step in?

This might be a deist's point of few, but try to stick with me.


God is just like a masterful clock maker. With his skills, he builds an amazingly complicated clock that functions perfectly. Although it is convoluted with many gears and moving parts, it never snags or has a glitch.

Now, the clock of course is the universe. The universe has order, it has rules, and it has tendencies. The things inside the universe follow rules of physics. Matter can not exit or enter the system. It is (as far as this analogy goes) a contained and systematic clock.

Now, inevitably the time will eventually be 11:11 with 11 milliseconds. At that time, some one will die in the universe. Now, if you were the clock maker, you could possibly prevent that. However, the only thing you could do is stop the clock to adjust it (ending the universe) or to make an adjustment in real time (divine intervention). Both have repercussions. If you adjust something that has order and is completely contained, you change the entire system. Changing the entire system could be disastrous for everyone. So if you truly loved your creations, you wouldn't dare interfere with them.

tl:dr too bad read it.

Quote from Dudeman

This might be a deist's point of few, but try to stick with me.


God is just like a masterful clock maker. With his skills, he builds an amazingly complicated clock that functions perfectly. Although it is convoluted with many gears and moving parts, it never snags or has a glitch.

Now, the clock of course is the universe. The universe has order, it has rules, and it has tendencies. The things inside the universe follow rules of physics. Matter can not exit or enter the system. It is (as far as this analogy goes) a contained and systematic clock.

Now, inevitably the time will eventually be 11:11 with 11 milliseconds. At that time, some one will die in the universe. Now, if you were the clock maker, you could possibly prevent that. However, the only thing you could do is stop the clock to adjust it (ending the universe) or to make an adjustment in real time (divine intervention). Both have repercussions. If you adjust something that has order and is completely contained, you change the entire system. Changing the entire system could be disastrous for everyone. So if you truly loved your creations, you wouldn't dare interfere with them.

tl:dr too bad read it.

Or the clockmaker could not just be a faggot considering he made the world and all the laws in the universe he can bend and weave his way around them, therefore rendering the repercussions non-existent and another weeping family somewhere else.

Quote from MoD

Or the clockmaker could not just be a faggot considering he made the world and all the laws in the universe he can bend and weave his way around them, therefore rendering the repercussions non-existent and another weeping family somewhere else.

Think of it in terms of the gears of a clock. As soon as you change the pacing of one gear (even one time), you alter all of the gears indirectly.

Yes, but a god is omnipotent, or else he is not a god. As well as being omnipotent, he can change anything. With this is mind, he can force all the gears back into the original position.

Changing it all over again ****ing things up more.

If you re-wire something, then wire it back the same way it was wired before, it will never work EXACTLY the same way.

Yes, but if you are truly a god, you just change the thing without the side effects.


Unless you're saying god boxed himself in his own laws?

People are trying to defend God on why he wouldn't intervene, but seriously you're just making up reasons.

While some of them make sense, it is a fruitless argument on both sides.

Quote from MoD

Yes, but if you are truly a god, you just change the thing without the side effects.


Unless you're saying god boxed himself in his own laws?

So, you're saying; "If god is real, he should have infinite power. Otherwise, he is not a god."?
Very similar to saying; "If a dog is real, it should have 4 legs, bark and have a waggling tail", in a sense.
You could cut the dogs limbs off, nail it's tail down and cut off it's tongue. It'll still be a dog. If you understand what I mean, kudos to you.
Also, you said he can force things back to place. But, we're a human race, we understand too well and think too freely. Imagine somebody coming to you as god and helping you out of a situation. You would react the same way any of us would; You would want to tell more people, ruining this creation that god may have wanted. Changing one thing could change many if you see it from the same sense I'm seeing it.

Bonk:
Can you give me an example of what points were given on why god would intervene, that were stated as to why he would not? Maybe I missed some, not reading all the pages. I'm just curious.

No, because a god is defined as being Omnipotent and all powerful, with the ability to change anything, do anything. If he boxed himself in with laws and physics and the whole 9 iron suite, then he is not a god, just a shell of a god, but no longer a god and not worthy to be called one.

I'm not going by the fairytale god. I'm going by a god. A god could be anything far superior.

I was going by the human definition of a god.



**** YES I FOUND A BOX OF JAFFA CAKES IN MY COAT POCKET YESH


I'm off to watch Spaced, see yah'

Quote from SpaceBar

God is needed, because the world is a very scary place. Look at all those pedophiles out there. Once my nano tech armor arrives and I finish my costume, I shall become the new god of this world and deliver JUSTICE.
So people need a god. I don't care if they don't want one. It's not their choice.

All Hail Spacebar.

All Hail the mighty Troll of the west.