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Do people need god?

Started by: Mantha | Replies: 457 | Views: 16,161

Dudeman
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Jan 20, 2009 3:37 AM #341356
Quote from MoD
No, because a god is defined as being Omnipotent and all powerful, with the ability to change anything, do anything. If he boxed himself in with laws and physics and the whole 9 iron suite, then he is not a god, just a shell of a god, but no longer a god and not worthy to be called one.
God created a universe with order. The sun feeds the plants, the plants feed the animals, the animals feed the humans, etc. God gave humans free choice.

Although he is omnipotent, he doesn't undo his own work. Although he HAS the power to intervene, that doesn't mean he should. Part of having power isn't just using your power, but having the wisdom to know when to use it.
MoD
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Jan 20, 2009 3:39 AM #341357
So he doesn't intervene with our lives, and yet we worship him, blindly in some cases, while we are obviously beneath his gaze?


WASTE OF LIFE MUCH
LakE

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Jan 20, 2009 3:42 AM #341361
That was the point of the thread from the start, basically. "Do we need god? He doesn't do anything."

But he does. The idea of him gives people the power to restart a life they gave up on a long time ago. The idea of him and what he has made us believe happens when we're wrong gives us a reason to do right.
The very idea of him created order.
We, as a race, need god. As I've said before, your reason is your god. Not the god in general, the one most of us think of. But a god to say the least. Be it a thought or a person, it's a reason and it's giving life. It must have some god-like powers rendering it a god.
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Jan 20, 2009 3:43 AM #341362
Quote from SpaceBar
God is needed, because the world is a very scary place. Look at all those pedophiles out there. Once my nano tech armor arrives and I finish my costume, I shall become the new god of this world and deliver JUSTICE.
So people need a god. I don't care if they don't want one. It's not their choice.

All Hail Spacebar.


Wait, what?
MoD
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Jan 20, 2009 3:54 AM #341381
Quote from LakE
That was the point of the thread from the start, basically. "Do we need god? He doesn't do anything."

But he does. The idea of him gives people the power to restart a life they gave up on a long time ago. The idea of him and what he has made us believe happens when we're wrong gives us a reason to do right.
The very idea of him created order.
We, as a race, need god. As I've said before, your reason is your god. Not the god in general, the one most of us think of. But a god to say the least. Be it a thought or a person, it's a reason and it's giving life. It must have some god-like powers rendering it a god.

Oh cool.



Buffy the Vampire Slayer is my god, by the way.
alive
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Jan 20, 2009 6:31 AM #341518
And I agree. We are a naturally curious species.

I don't understand this. People have this idea that religion, the idea of a god, is an easy answer.

This can't be further from the truth. Any critical thought applied to the ideas of a god immediately creates even MORE questions, ones about which hundreds of books have been written, and yet if a child asks his pastor "Who made God" the pastor's response, be it "He always was" or be it "He made himself", more questions arise about not only the integrity of the applied logic, but also to the idea of God itself.


If the idea of God was an easy one, I think we would have made at least a LITTLE progress with it.

Then I will understand what I meant. Imagine that you are very far north, and see northern polar lights, something we didn't fully figure out until 2008. Obviously, many people through time have wondered what this light is. To me, it seems like a much 'easier' answer to say that the lights are dancing ancestors, without any form of backing knowledge or investigation, than it is to actually figure out what the lights are, developing theories, sending up satellites etc.
In that way, religion is easy, the easy way out. Instead of working hard to figure out what you don't understand, you can come up with an explanation that suits you, or, in some religions, simply say that it is divine and beyond your comprehension, and thus stop pursuing knowledge in the matter.


I will agree that religion might help a few people. However, I feel that it does far more harm in general than good.



I'll use Christianity as my example, since I know it best.

I think everyone will agree that the Old Testament is filled with inaccuracies.
"But wait, we don't believe in a LITERAL interpretation of Genesis, it's more of a poem about Creation."

Okay, you may think that, and I won't deny that you do. But not everyone has the same view. Some people think that it SHOULD be taken literally, and why shouldn't they? After all, it tells them it's the inspired word of God. Just as well, imagine a priest explaining to his congregation that Genesis is just a "poem about creation."

One might "know" that it's not meant to be taken literally, but someone else will also "know" that it IS meant to be taken literally.

This is all relevant to the discussion because people are supposed to get their morals from the Bible, but by what criteria does one pick and choose those morals?


BTW, this isn't directed at you, Alive, these are just questions that your post gave rise to.


Well, here I generally agree with you, I don't think organized religion does the world much good. Individual spirituality, however, can be good in many ways. Here comes a cute little story: I once asked why grandmother whether she believed in God or not. She said she didn't belong to any organized religion, but that when she dies, it would never suck not to see her grand children again, and therefore chose to believe in something. In this sense, her personal "religion" isn't harmful in at all. Quite on the contrary, it comforts her.

As 2-D said earlier, religion is not a need, it's a want. This should be obvious, and can be based on empirical knowledge, because we can all see that people can survive, whether they are religious or not. That is why we need to define what type of need we are talking about. Religion does not fall into the category of what we need to survive, but it can absolutely fall into the category of what many people need to enjoy life.
Mantha
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Jan 20, 2009 9:43 AM #341572
Mmhm, I agree with the post above. Generally.

Though pay attention to this.

There is no "tl;dr"-s in the debate section. Sometimes arguments have to be elaborated and have to have some examples. Whoever doesn't want to read all that is a lazy faggot and should get out of the Debate section immediately. Not saying all the posts should be long, just don't complain if there are long posts.
Kegman
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Jan 20, 2009 1:36 PM #341602
Quote from alive
but it can absolutely fall into the category of what many people need to enjoy life.


or, if your a muslim woman, be persecuted and looked down upon as a lesser creature.


its all good
Ash
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Jan 20, 2009 2:05 PM #341607
Quote from Dudeman
God created a universe with order. The sun feeds the plants, the plants feed the animals, the animals feed the humans, etc. God gave humans free choice.

Although he is omnipotent, he doesn't undo his own work. Although he HAS the power to intervene, that doesn't mean he should. Part of having power isn't just using your power, but having the wisdom to know when to use it.


I don't understand the deistic point of view. If god is there just as a creator and doesn't intervene later, then why is he even a requirement? Just because science hasn't explained the universe all the way yet? And isn't a deistic view contradictive to the Bible?
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Jan 20, 2009 3:00 PM #341631
Yes we do,we need to have someone that listens ,we need to have someone that will help us when we have no hope,we need someone that is more powerful than us. And we need someone to blame for something that is unblamable.
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Jan 20, 2009 3:15 PM #341634
Quote from Kegman
or, if your a muslim woman, be persecuted and looked down upon as a lesser creature.


its all good


That's right. I did say that there is only one side to it all.
Kegman
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Jan 20, 2009 4:24 PM #341656
Quote from alive
That's right. I did say that there is only one side to it all.



yeah, but best not mention the bad sides, noone wants to hear about them.
alive
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Jan 20, 2009 5:48 PM #341717
Quote from Kegman
yeah, but best not mention the bad sides, noone wants to hear about them.


The bad sides were completely irrelevant to the argument. It doesn't matter if many people are treated poorly because of religion, someone else can still need religion to enjoy life regardless. To say that religion can be good for some people does not equal saying that it cannot be bad for some people. The statements aren't mutually exclusive. I, for example, love playing the drums, and need to play at least half an hour to an hour a day to feel good. I don't care whether the next guy likes playing drums or not, I still enjoy it.
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Jan 20, 2009 6:42 PM #341771
Really? I never imagined you as a drums kind of guy, Alive.
Kegman
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Jan 20, 2009 7:17 PM #341789
Quote from alive
The bad sides were completely irrelevant to the argument. It doesn't matter if many people are treated poorly because of religion, someone else can still need religion to enjoy life regardless. To say that religion can be good for some people does not equal saying that it cannot be bad for some people. The statements aren't mutually exclusive. I, for example, love playing the drums, and need to play at least half an hour to an hour a day to feel good. I don't care whether the next guy likes playing drums or not, I still enjoy it.



Maybe that guy likes the drums, he just can't play them because of a belief system imposed on him from an early age says he can't.

I'm not saying you don't appreciate the privillages you have, im saying the topic title can never be answered because of so many conflicting personal experiences with god / gods of all different faiths.


so i dont know where this is going apart from 'does god exist', which is another dead end.
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