Quote from Dragon⁰⁷⁷

As opposed to your topics of discussion, which consist almost exclusively on the shitty misrepresentation of religion and religious people. I think you put science on too high a pedestal some times.

Please elaborate on the misrepresentation of religion part.

@Ogrilla: "reaches too deep into scriptures"? I hope you aren't trying to say that I do that, because the only times I ever bring up obscure scripture are when a theist is doing the same, or if they are claiming the bible as being "infallible". Furthermore, I don't take low blows, unless you have some odd standard for what is considered "low".

Quote from Ash

Oh, I remember now. Different interpretations mean that the bible can't be used as a source of fact.

yes, I see now that it is not fact, but it is history. Over time, people who looked after the documents had to carefully copy everything over the generations, I would not doubt if there's some missing books or key information from the Bible. I have no doubt that this has happened, no matter what you try and say...

Look through my eye's and I'll look through yours. There is some pretty unimaginable things that people have discovered, many are with the government, it's quite disturbing to think about it. The advancements that can be made in such short periods are scary...

Quote from Ash

Please elaborate on the misrepresentation of religion part.

@Ogrilla: "reaches too deep into scriptures"? I hope you aren't trying to say that I do that, because the only times I ever bring up obscure scripture are when a theist is doing the same, or if they are claiming the bible as being "infallible". Furthermore, I don't take low blows, unless you have some odd standard for what is considered "low".

I'm saying my friend does both of those, not you, but I was likening you to him because you both go too far for my comfort. You debate in such a way that makes your opponent feel less than equal, or at least that's what they think you're trying to do, whether you mean to or not. He does the same thing and he doesn't normally realize it while it's happening. It's even worse if you deliberately do that. I'm not insulting you and I'm certainly not trying to correct you, but I can't say I agree with your methods. That's it, nothing more to say. It's not an argument, so don't treat it as one.

To continue somewhat on topic:
Rawgreen, what are you referring to in that last paragraph?

Quote from RawGreen

yes, I see now that it is not fact, but it is history. Over time, people who looked after the documents had to carefully copy everything over the generations, I would not doubt if there's some missing books or key information from the Bible. I have no doubt that this has happened, no matter what you try and say...

Yes, that's almost certainly happened, but not exactly in the way you are thinking. Our bibles come from the same source, a hebrew text. That was translated into latin, and the King James bible is an english translation from that latin one, I believe.
Some of our translations come directly from hebrew.

This means that relatively little is lost through translation. It's not like our current bibles are the result of translation from hundreds of different languages.

Now, int he case of the stories changing, many of the stories in the Old Testament are actually related to historical events, but only in loose ways.

For example, the key parts of the story of Noahs ark are found in stories from lots of other areas of the middle east.

From what historians can gather, the stories come from an actual occurence. A Sumatran King was told that a flood was immenent, so he loaded a merchant ship up with goods and rode the ship on the floodwaters into a nearby sea.

The story was passed on through word of mouth, and the details steadily changed, and then the story was written down in one of its forms in what became the story of Noah's Ark.

Furthermore, most of the Jesus story is rooted in ancient hero figures and Pagan symbolism. In fact, his story is shared by earlier figures such as Hercules, Horus, Krishna, and Dionysus.

Look through my eye's and I'll look through yours. There is some pretty unimaginable things that people have discovered, many are with the government, it's quite disturbing to think about it. The advancements that can be made in such short periods are scary...

I have looked through your eyes. Its no secret that the first year I was on SP, I was a Christian.

Quote from Ash

Please elaborate on the misrepresentation of religion part.

http://stickpageportal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100280

Oh, because I had to misrepresent the Quran to show it wa full of intolerance and tells Islamic readers that non-muslims are all doomed to hell, and that you shouldn't feel bad for them, that through Jihad you will be rewarded in the afterlife?

Quote from Ash

Yes, that's almost certainly happened, but not exactly in the way you are thinking. Our bibles come from the same source, a hebrew text. That was translated into latin, and the King James bible is an english translation from that latin one, I believe.
Some of our translations come directly from hebrew.

This means that relatively little is lost through translation. It's not like our current bibles are the result of translation from hundreds of different languages.

Now, int he case of the stories changing, many of the stories in the Old Testament are actually related to historical events, but only in loose ways.

For example, the key parts of the story of Noahs ark are found in stories from lots of other areas of the middle east.

From what historians can gather, the stories come from an actual occurence. A Sumatran King was told that a flood was immenent, so he loaded a merchant ship up with goods and rode the ship on the floodwaters into a nearby sea.

The story was passed on through word of mouth, and the details steadily changed, and then the story was written down in one of its forms in what became the story of Noah's Ark.

Furthermore, most of the Jesus story is rooted in ancient hero figures and Pagan symbolism. In fact, his story is shared by earlier figures such as Hercules, Horus, Krishna, and Dionysus.

in short:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo

:shows another misinterpretation.

Quote from Ash

Oh, because I had to misrepresent the Quran to show it wa full of intolerance and tells Islamic readers that non-muslims are all doomed to hell, and that you shouldn't feel bad for them, that through Jihad you will be rewarded in the afterlife?

you are utterly and completely wrong but since this isn't the Islam Intolerance thread I'm not going to elaborate on your idiocy. Just find a ****ing Muslim and ask them this crap, instead of basing all of your views off of some site that could easily take quotes from the Quran out of context and even make some up if they so pleased. Your quickness to jump to conclusions about religions is ridiculous (not to mention that you've never even discussed any of your views with real Muslims beyond a prejudiced site). Just ****ing respect other people's religions like everyone else and stop trying to pump your offensive and false bullshit down everyone's throats. Do you know how many people I know who would beat the shit out of you for the misinterpreted bullshit you've said about their religions in your Anti-Religion Crusade? It's amazing you get recognition as a good debater on this site when you've found a way to wrongly insult religion so much. I mean, I'm an atheist, do you see me constantly hating on religion? I'll debate the existence of God, but beyond that religion is actually a really interesting and cultural asset of humankind. Respect that shit for what it is, instead of insulting the people who believe something different than you (eg. Steyene) and generalizing.

Quote from Dinomut

you are utterly and completely wrong but since this isn't the Islam Intolerance thread I'm not going to elaborate on your idiocy. Just find a ****ing Muslim and ask them this crap, instead of basing all of your views off of some site that could easily take quotes from the Quran out of context and even make some up if they so pleased.

I'm not doing that, I'm basing my oppinion off the Quran itself.

Your quickness to jump to conclusions about religions is ridiculous (not to mention that you've never even discussed any of your views with real Muslims beyond a prejudiced site).

Firstly, why do I need to discus my views with a Muslim in order to conclude that radical islamists are awful murderers?

Just ****ing respect other people's religions like everyone else

Because that's how humanity progresses, right? By doing the same thing as everybody else?
"Just sit down and be quiet like every other woman. You don't need voting rights!"
"Just accept being oppressed like everyone else, black guy, you don't need to fight for civil rights!"

and stop trying to pump your offensive

Oh, sorry, am I offending someone? Well, then, I'll just stop right now because debate is only allowed if your arguments aren't offensive.

and false bullshit down everyone's throats.

How is making a few posts in the debate section the same as "pumping things down people's throats"?

Do you know how many people I know who would beat the shit out of you

Internet tough guy?

for the misinterpreted bullshit you've said about their religions

Because if I don't interpret the quran as being full of rainbows and sunshine instead of violence and bigotry, it's not because the people interpreting it as rainbows and sunshine are deluding themselves, but because I am misinterpreting it?

in your Anti-Religion Crusade?

Because making a few posts on a stick animation forum is totally the same as WAGING A WAR AGAINST RELIGION!!!

It's amazing you get recognition as a good debater on this site when you've found a way to wrongly insult religion so much. I mean, I'm an atheist, do you see me constantly hating on religion?

That's because you aren't also an anti-theist. You don't think that religion is a bad thing, that it has a negative effect on the world

I'll debate the existence of God, but beyond that religion is actually a really interesting and cultural asset of humankind.

I agree that it's interesting, but in no way is it an asset to culture.

Respect that shit for what it is,

A vehicle on which people can justify any violence, and one that encourages people not to think or reconsider, but to just accept things as true? One filled with beliefs based on primitive, bloodstained texts that encourage violence and bigotry?

instead of insulting the people who believe something different than you (eg. Steyene) and generalizing.

You make it sound like I am insulting people just because they believe different than me. However, I insult people like steyner only when they say things exceedingly stupid. It has nothing to do with their beliefs.

And by the way, when I use the word "insult", I mean saying things like "idiot" and "stupid". Questioning people's beliefs and not automatically respecting faith-based ones isn't what I consider an insult.

Ugh, I dont want to get into a debate again.

Don't you think that if 99% of a rather large number of people believe it whole heatedly to be rainbows and sunshine WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE RELIGION, compared to your one opinion of it being bad means something? I think that means that YOU are deluding yourself to it being bad.

And don't even try to compare the number of people who think it is bad to people whole believe it to be good, its no contest.

Quote from Ash

Because making a few posts on a stick animation forum is totally the same as WAGING A WAR AGAINST RELIGION!!!

That's basically the biggest understatement I've ever seen right there.

Quote from Dinomut

you are utterly and completely wrong but since this isn't the Islam Intolerance thread I'm not going to elaborate on your idiocy. Just find a ****ing Muslim and ask them this crap, instead of basing all of your views off of some site that could easily take quotes from the Quran out of context and even make some up if they so pleased. Your quickness to jump to conclusions about religions is ridiculous (not to mention that you've never even discussed any of your views with real Muslims beyond a prejudiced site). Just ****ing respect other people's religions like everyone else and stop trying to pump your offensive and false bullshit down everyone's throats. Do you know how many people I know who would beat the shit out of you for the misinterpreted bullshit you've said about their religions in your Anti-Religion Crusade? It's amazing you get recognition as a good debater on this site when you've found a way to wrongly insult religion so much. I mean, I'm an atheist, do you see me constantly hating on religion? I'll debate the existence of God, but beyond that religion is actually a really interesting and cultural asset of humankind. Respect that shit for what it is, instead of insulting the people who believe something different than you (eg. Steyene) and generalizing.

Quote from Dragon⁰⁷⁷

That's basically the biggest understatement I've ever seen right there.

I find it worrying you allow dinomut to spout this complete horseshit without even a warning.

Making violent threats (thinly veiled) is not cool in the debate section. Nor is saying 'Respect this and shut the **** up'.


I suggest you do your job Dragon and warn people who post shit like this in a DEBATE section.


And its not double standards, i believe serious debate should have rules, where boneheads like Dinomut are not allowed to spout irrelevant garbage (rl frends gonna beet u up) so we can actually get a healthy back and forth going.

Quote from Jeremy

Don't you think that if 99% of a rather large number of people believe it whole heatedly to be rainbows and sunshine WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE RELIGION, compared to your one opinion of it being bad means something? I think that means that YOU are deluding yourself to it being bad.

So the world was flat up until the majority believed it to be round, was it?

Majority doesn't rule on fact, jeremy. The Quran says that stuff whether people want to ignore it or not.

@Dragon: Okay, a lot of posts in the debate section of a stick animation site.

Ooh, so much worse, right? So much closer to a war on religion, right?

Quote from Ash

So the world was flat up until the majority believed it to be round, was it?

Majority doesn't rule on fact, jeremy. The Quran says that stuff whether people want to ignore it or not.

@Dragon: Okay, a lot of posts in the debate section of a stick animation site.

Ooh, so much worse, right? So much closer to a war on religion, right?

It says that stuff in YOUR opinion. We have already been over the scriptures, they don't say beyond a shadow of doubt KILL THE INFIDELS. Its all interpretation, yours is no more right than theirs.

The cow:
2:6 - As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.

2:7 - Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.

And don't even pretend that those are rare.

Methinks "interpretation" is a synonym for "system of ignoring things one dislikes" the way you're using it.