I found Jeff on IRC and asked him to look into avatars, sigs, and user titles. Possibly I should have asked for a more general check.

After seeing Devours avatar, I don't think I'm going to mess with my settings haha.
Well Stone said he was going to be sort of busy moving, so hopefully he will take care of the issue when he returns.

All you have to do is go to our group's permissions, and then check some boxes.

if my permissions aren't fixed soon I am going to murder-suicide everyone in this building

Quote from Index

if my permissions aren't fixed soon I am going to murder-suicide everyone in this building

Not if I do it first. I am suffering right now

It does make you look rather silly, Devour. Your avatar almost looks like it should be one of your achievements.

Okay, maybe it isn't that small.

Wow quit your bitchin', I fixed them. let me know if you still have something to whine about.

Also this double posting and pointless/spam/on-word posting has got to stop. Now that there's a points system, people who make posts that could be seen as unnecessary will receive a warning or infraction.

This includes (but is not limited to):

- Mutli-posting (if left undeleted, give them a warning)
- One-Word or small posts
- image only posts
- off-topic posts (especially ones that seem intentionally so)
- intentionally spam posts

Also if a topic comes up in the general chat section that is really stupid or pointless, discuss the possible merits of it here and we can decide whether or not to lock it. There seems to be an ass-ton of pointless threads being made.

Also also, I am considering making a new section for forum games, because those get really spammy really fast. The section would not add to your post count and would not increase your points.

That's not too bad of a list, but infractions for off-topic posts seems a tad bit too strict for me. We can't possibly have a thread for every possible turn of conversation.

Please raise the minimum word limit to something that you think would be more acceptable. Right now, people can make one-word posts. If that'd just earn them a warning, why allow them to even do it?

Human conversations naturally branch off into new ones, and I'd have a hard time punishing people for it, rather than simply saying "Hey guys, we're a little off-topic". An extra page doesn't burn my eyes out. This thread is technically off topic, y'know.
What if an image pertains directly to the topic? What if it's original content?

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention: On stickpage, we have a "Trash Can" section where bad/spam-filled threads are moved to, rather than locking the threads in question. The section itself is locked, so locking individual threads is not necessary. It also gets rid of clutter.

ALSO, you actually got the avatar dimensions wrong again. Regular users have the avatar limit of 185x185 while moderators now have 150x150. I'm assuming this wasn't intentional, and I'd rather not be stuck with it. Thanks for looking into the issue, though.

Under certain circumstances, it would be OK for a one-word post to be made. I don't want to set a hard limit because it would be problematic for these circumstances. I'm more talking about posts that are along the lines of "LOL" or "OK" or "idgaf".

Also, when I say "off-topic," I don't mean anything that doesn't have to do with the original topic. I mean things that don't have to do with the topic currently at-hand. For example, if the conversation is about the benefits of Preparation-H, and someone said "I like to fuck elephants", that would be pointless and off-topic. I know more than anyone how conversations go. Come on guys, you're mods. Use common sense. :|

Also again, there are circumstances where image posting would be allowed, but this isn't an imageboard. Using stupid recycled memes to reply is lazy and unfunny to anyone who isn't mindless. I don't care if you use one and then go on to write text and shit, but only posting an image in response to someone else is usually pointless and spammy.

I just remembered another thing I want to see warnings sent out for: People who follow other users around harassing them. Arguing and shit is fine by me, even if it's a little heated (personally), but following a person around insulting them in multiple threads is going too far.

In response to the trash can, I know. We did that on FA, too for a while before it became cumbersome with the amount of shit people were posting. When I say "locked", I usually mean disabling the thread from receiving replies. How this is done is irrelevant. It feels like you guys are trying to run the show already after becoming gmods, please stop this attitude. I'm trying to be respectful about this, but the way you were complaining about permissions made you seem like an entitled brat. I know you were probably joking, but the hostility and aggression isn't necessary, and doesn't reflect well on you so far as selected mods.

That being said I'm glad you guys are actually DOING shit. It's refreshing from the one or two other active mods that helped me on FA. It seems the FA mod mentality has come over here to SP given that I rarely see ANY of the newly appointed FA Mods doing anything and it's really annoying. Being a mod isn't just a title or a status, it's also a job, so I thank you for the work you've done so far.

As for the avatar issues, I didn't get them wrong "again", I only changed them once. Whoever set up your usergroup did not bother to copy or change ANY permissions, so they're all wacky default ones. I haven't had the patience or time to go through and make sure the permissions are exactly the same as the other groups, so I've been changing them on request. I didn't really know what the other group's avatar size was, and for some reason 150x150 stuck out in my mind. Please don't blame me for vbulletin's out-dated and idiotic admin panel and permissions system.

Ah, excuse me for the misunderstanding. I was just under the impression that you set it to 50x50 first, but I wasn't trying to be negative/blaming when pointing out that 150x150 isn't right. I just thought I should point it out in some way.

Extreme off topic posts are already earn users punishments; in fact, I gave someone an infraction for making off topic posts just yesterday. If it's something entirely random, it's also spam as well as being off-topic. Since you were listing things that we don't already disallow, I assumed you meant the discussion is not allowed to veer in a direction different from the stated thread topic.

I'm not sure what you mean by "running the show", but I thought you and stone are more relaxed admins than people like CJ, so I've been less formal and "polite", but not with bad intentions. Suicide murdering and whatnot would be me trying to be funny, yeah, and I really didn't think you knew about the trash can. This is because Jombo locked a couple of threads but didn't know about moving them. I don't know if you're also referring to how I said "piss easy", but I was just joking around there too.

About one word posts: To get around the character limit, you can put a bunch of spaces before the last character, and vbulletin will let you post. It just reminds people that they're making a post that's abnormally short, and keeps very new members from spamming around with "Cool" and things like that. It's fine if you don't want to change the limit, but that's just my suggestion.

I agree with the part about meme/noncontributing image posts. I'll warn VToon next time he does it. Do you think it should be added to the official forum rules? I'm really grateful that you're open to discussion about these sorts of things, and I apologize for coming off as aggressive.

Quote from Jeff

Wow quit your bitchin', I fixed them. let me know if you still have something to whine about.

Also this double posting and pointless/spam/on-word posting has got to stop. Now that there's a points system, people who make posts that could be seen as unnecessary will receive a warning or infraction.

This includes (but is not limited to):

- Mutli-posting (if left undeleted, give them a warning)
- One-Word or small posts
- image only posts
- off-topic posts (especially ones that seem intentionally so)
- intentionally spam posts

Also if a topic comes up in the general chat section that is really stupid or pointless, discuss the possible merits of it here and we can decide whether or not to lock it. There seems to be an ass-ton of pointless threads being made.

Also also, I am considering making a new section for forum games, because those get really spammy really fast. The section would not add to your post count and would not increase your points.

Sounds reasonable.
I don't find every double post or post of spam to be infraction or warning (by pm or 0 point infraction) to be completely necessary if that is what you are getting at.
I would most likely just make a post in the thread mentioning it and warning them that if it is repeated then disciplinary action will be taken.

I like the new forum games section idea.
Also, are there any plans for the points system? I believe it was called an oz system that you all had on FA that allowed users to buy things and trade with one another in exchange for services such as making signatures and avatars; is something like that going to be incorporated here?

Quote from Index

Ah, excuse me for the misunderstanding. I was just under the impression that you set it to 50x50 first, but I wasn't trying to be negative/blaming when pointing out that 150x150 isn't right. I just thought I should point it out in some way.

Extreme off topic posts are already earn users punishments; in fact, I gave someone an infraction for making off topic posts just yesterday. If it's something entirely random, it's also spam as well as being off-topic. Since you were listing things that we don't already disallow, I assumed you meant the discussion is not allowed to veer in a direction different from the stated thread topic.

I'm not sure what you mean by "running the show", but I thought you and stone are more relaxed admins than people like CJ, so I've been less formal and "polite", but not with bad intentions. Suicide murdering and whatnot would be me trying to be funny, yeah, and I really didn't think you knew about the trash can. This is because Jombo locked a couple of threads but didn't know about moving them. I don't know if you're also referring to how I said "piss easy", but I was just joking around there too.

About one word posts: To get around the character limit, you can put a bunch of spaces before the last character, and vbulletin will let you post. It just reminds people that they're making a post that's abnormally short, and keeps very new members from spamming around with "Cool" and things like that. It's fine if you don't want to change the limit, but that's just my suggestion.

I agree with the part about meme/noncontributing image posts. I'll warn VToon next time he does it. Do you think it should be added to the official forum rules? I'm really grateful that you're open to discussion about these sorts of things, and I apologize for coming off as aggressive.

By running the show, I mean that I'm used to pretty much doing 80% of the moderating myself on FA, because aside from Jombo, there aren't a whole lot of other mods that actually do their job. Whereas here, you guys seemed to immediately get on board and do shit, which is good, but sometimes it feels like you're overstepping your boundaries as gmods because you're used to how SP was before. I really do like that I haven't been on the forums for a little bit (because I don't know about you guys but they stopped loading for me), and the forum didn't go to shit. I'm used to leaving for a bit, coming back and finding a ton of posts made that deserve warnings.

On the subject of doing everything myself, while it's a pain the fucking ass sometimes, it allows me to be consistent across the board. Part of the problem with having a bunch of different people as moderators is because they all have their own tolerances and opinions, so sometimes an infraction is given to one user when it may not be necessary, just because the mod deemed it as such. When I worked for Apple, the biggest thing in doing tech support was to stay consistent, and it was for a VERY good reason. If I were to go outside of my scope to help someone with something we don't "officially" support (like installing Flash player for the customer), I have set the expectation that any time they phone in, they will get help with that kind of stuff, which is unfair to those who don't know shit about Flash player.

This philosophy should also apply to moderation. When the moderation team at FA was completely disorganized, people really didn't grasp what was against the rules and what wasn't, because moderators seemed to do their own thing, which was frustrating. Having a specific guideline to follow, but still allowing some room for leniency, is the best idea in this situation. It sets a good solid expectation within the community about what flies and what doesn't. It's not going to happen over night, there are a lot of people still rejecting the changes, but it will get there. A shitty part about being a good moderator or administrator is that people may regard you as nothing but a hard-ass or a jerk for following the rules. A lot of people don't like or fear me because they see me as someone who will fuck them up, but really if they aren't doing anything wrong, they have nothing to worry about.

Anyway I'm just kind of rambling now. I will be creating a new rules topic that thoroughly goes through all of the guidelines and rules that should be enforced soon. I'm going to post it here so that you guys can look through and discuss points you like or don't like, so we can come up with this thing together so that everyone will be happy.

Quote from Arch-Angel

Sounds reasonable.
I don't find every double post or post of spam to be infraction or warning (by pm or 0 point infraction) to be completely necessary if that is what you are getting at.
I would most likely just make a post in the thread mentioning it and warning them that if it is repeated then disciplinary action will be taken.

I like the new forum games section idea.
Also, are there any plans for the points system? I believe it was called an oz system that you all had on FA that allowed users to buy things and trade with one another in exchange for services such as making signatures and avatars; is something like that going to be incorporated here?

This is how I do it, too. Sometimes it's just not necessary, and you have to give some leniency or benefit of the doubt. Instead of warning, just tell them flat out that they're on thin ice with what they're doing. After that if they keep on doing what they're doing then they get an appropriate punishment.

As for the points system, I have no idea. Stone really wanted it implemented, but it's nothing like the system we have so I've largely ignored it's existence. If they ever get around to releasing the portal I imagine it would tie in there, but because SP doesn't have a store, I don't know what the point of the system is.

Oh yeah. I hadn't realised that CJ had gotten rid of the shop. Although I guess the fact that no one would notice its disappearance is probably the reason.

I definitely think we need new rules/guidelines. We've needed that for a long time; no one takes the ancient rules seriously because some are enforced and some are not.

Do you plan to do anything if some moderators are never online, even for months? A little while ago I messaged Jomm asking why he isn't active, and he just brushed it off and kept being inactive after replying. It doesn't seem to me like he wants to be a moderator on this forum, honestly.

and sorry if this sounds completely inappropriate, but: the avatars for moderators are still too small. Just a reminder in case you forgot.

Quote from Index

I definitely think we need new rules/guidelines. We've needed that for a long time; no one takes the ancient rules seriously because some are enforced and some are not.

Do you plan to do anything if some moderators are never online, even for months? A little while ago I messaged Jomm asking why he isn't active, and he just brushed it off and kept being inactive after replying. It doesn't seem to me like he wants to be a moderator on this forum, honestly.

and sorry if this sounds completely inappropriate, but: the avatars for moderators are still too small. Just a reminder in case you forgot.

Oh I think I did forget. Also, side note: I read that as "in case you faggot" at first glance for some reason.

Anyway, yeah I plan to do something about inactive mods. As I said, it bugs the fuck out of me that the majority of the mods aren't active (in particular the FA ones), so I'll talk to stone about it. Also check out the Handbook thread.