I mean, I don't care about replays as in we'll just both swap replays and not prove any points at all.

Quote from HashBrownTrials

Umm, twinkletoes is Khan...

Huh. I really thought twink was chaos. Oh well.

Okay, last word unless someone else replies. There are a few things I'd like to point out and a few final points I want to make. It's not like we aren't proving points, you're saying that eles can't handle ranged and can't engage effectively. My replays show how I deal with ranged units and engage effectively against good 2k players, then all you say is that you don't care.

Another thing is this, you're not sending any replays, I'm the one sending replays and you're the one criticising it, it's not like we're both sending a barrage of replays and not getting anything done. And no offence but I don't even think you bothered to watch most of the replays. If you or anyone else is going to post a counter argument, watch the replays, then maybe you'll get what I'm saying.

Nut, we, or at least I don't, care about making fires work on 2k elo people. I care about making fires work against the best possible counter play possible that I highly doubt your replays show.

When I say ele can't handle ranged units, I don't mean it's impossible for ele to handle ranged units, I mean when the skill on both players is 100% or close ele can't handle ranged units.

Getting a perfect replay is neigh on impossible, which leaves us with theorycrafting, much of which has already highlighted fire issues with ranged units in the past.

Well, looks like someone else replied, so here we go. When did I ever say fires work on 2k elo users? If you actually view my replays, which I highly doubt that you did, you would kno what I'm saying.

Like I've been saying, my replays will counter most of the things you're saying, you're saying that ele can't handle ranged units if the rating on both players is similar, my replays all show 2k - 2.2k players, I would say they are pretty close to me in rating. Sure they aren't perfect replays, but I would say they are pretty good examples for showing how ele deals with ranged units.

Quote from nutsophast

Like I've been saying, my replays will counter most of the things you're saying, you're saying that ele can't handle ranged units if the rating on both players is similar, my replays all show 2k - 2.2k players, I would say they are pretty close to me in rating. Sure they aren't perfect replays, but I would say they are pretty good examples for showing how ele deals with ranged units.

No, I'm saying ele can't handle ranged units even if played well if it's against a very good/perfect Chaos counterplay.

If you want to show that ele can deal with ranged units (on Chaos) through a replay then please provide annotations side by side with timestamps so I can pinpoint where in the replay you think you show ele managing wing mass.

Let's try something different for a change.

Flipping it by the nose, can chaos defeat ele against a perfect ele counterplay?

Quote from _Ai_

Let's try something different for a change.

Flipping it by the nose, can chaos defeat ele against a perfect ele counterplay?

Yes because ele has no cost efficient response to wing mass, and ele has no efficient response to bomb spam * until ele gets a CAir which means ele will have to give up tower. Ele cannot win early game, and it stalling early-mid game doesn't help it deal with mid game wing mass.

* 1 crawler and any number of bombs can still run into ele's base and the crawler tank can get out alive

Quote from Skeletonxf

Yes because ele has no cost efficient response to wing mass, and ele has no efficient response to bomb spam * until ele gets a CAir which means ele will have to give up tower. Ele cannot win early game, and it stalling early-mid game doesn't help it deal with mid game win mass.

* 1 crawler and any number of bombs can still run into ele's base and the crawler tank can get out alive

tbh they don't have anything cost efficient. :I

Quote from Superterry

tbh they don't have anything cost efficient. :I

I'd say Fires are cost efficient against melee units and scorplings are cost efficient against swords.

Huh. That really isn't much.

Is it just me or am I the only one that's still bothered by ele's price of trees? ._.

Also this was an old idea by someone, but would it be better to switch prices of water and fire? Or would that make fires become TOO cost efficient?

Quote from Superterry

Is it just me or am I the only one that's still bothered by ele's price of trees? ._.

Also this was an old idea by someone, but would it be better to switch prices of water and fire? Or would that make fires become TOO cost efficient?

Hmm, well fire start in castle followed by earths would be buffed, tree mass would be nerfed.

Quote from HashBrownTrials

Hmm, well fire start in castle followed by earths would be buffed, tree mass would be nerfed.

Then how would it be in other map besides grass hills?

Quote from Skeletonxf

I think trees should just be redesigned, and fires made a mana cost unit.

I think it was WyzDM suggesting the price swap, but I think that was before realising the dps fires can deal is already crazy.

IMO because of things like Vs the combos can be to costly. Granted when the spells can switch a game in one casting thats great.

but 1350 I do believe for 1 unit that has very little chance of survival because of its little health it is deemed do expensive.
Maybe We could do something like:
Earth 150
Water 300
Air 400
Fire 400
It still prevents a fire earth and air earth starts but it goes from 1350 to 1250. So then give it one more bar of health like medusas and marrowkia and ninjas can still do work with one hit after the initial cloak hit.
It helps a little bit.