Quote from Ash

The fundamental concept of embedding a tendency in humans and punishing them for following that tendency is complete and utter evil.

What sort of tendencies?

Quote from Exilement

What sort of tendencies?

The common trope is the tendency to "sin", whatever that may mean. The narrative is that humans are predisposed to sin.

Well, if you look at it from a very conservative christian church point of view, then God is almighty, omnipotent, and everything he does, he does it for a reason, even more he loves, each of us how we are, and he does so much he even gives us the liberty to choose between sin and good deeds or whatever.
(at least that's what the bishop taught me)
So if god loves us he would never do something bad to us, and everything he does, he does it for a reason, we can find some sense in the following:
If God does something "bad", then that "bad" thing becomes good, and its you who has a wrong idea of the concept of "good" and "bad"

Just thought it was weird and funny, so Im sharing it :)

(I am christian, but Im trying to argue from a neutral point)

Hidro, dont bother to explain your beliefs. It doesn't matter what your say, some people will always find a way to counter a Christians argument. In
a way, believing in god is pretty good. Because since there is no REAL proof that he exists, and there is not enough proof to say he doesn't, I would just believe to make sure. I know some of you intellectual Stickpage members might say Im dumb, but hey, sometimes I follow the saying, "its better safe than sorry." Because nobody knows what happens after death, so IF the atheists are wrong, then they just go to hell.

Quote from Alien Anims

(I am christian, but Im trying to argue from a neutral point)

Hidro, dont bother to explain your beliefs. It doesn't matter what your say, some people will always find a way to counter a Christians argument. In
a way, believing in god is pretty good. Because since there is no REAL proof that he exists, and there is not enough proof to say he doesn't, I would just believe to make sure. I know some of you intellectual Stickpage members might say Im dumb, but hey, sometimes I follow the saying, "its better safe than sorry." Because nobody knows what happens after death, so IF the atheists are wrong, then they just go to hell.

I don't have to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on the one making extraordinary claims.

That seems like a pretty bad reason to believe to me. There are hundreds of thousands of different religions and beliefs in the world. Just Christianity has like 30000 different sects. A lot of them have some sort of a hell too. Why not believe them on the basis of fear too, then? It seems like a gamble to me.

Anyway, this thread is about god's morality, not whether or not he exists.

God is good all the time, he has a plan for every actions he made towards humanity

Quote from Colonel-EX

God is good all the time, he has a plan for every actions he made towards humanity

Why does his plan have to involve so much suffering, then? Surely that's not a very good plan.

@Alien Anims
those aren't my beliefs.... I'm atheist

Leo kill, I would like to know how old you are, or, just a range. It doesn't have to be exact you cant probably see were Im going with this.

(if you reply, you will see how what Im saying will be on topic)

You use many great scientists and philosophers in your arguments, but what you fail to understand is that nobody is smart enough to know everything. Things that some scientist say might take another 100 generations to figure out. Even now, we say, well, "the Laws of Physics are just there, always have been always will be." Even though I thought science was supposed to be a reasonable explanation to natural events. You say his plans involve suffering, which it looks like to me too, but as the Bible says, nobody knows how he thinks. After all, if you watch "Life" on animal planet, (not on the show) but he is said to have created all animals. If you think about 1/5 of what animals do, you think, holly hell, this guy is a genius. A fantastic mind that no human will ever comprehend. If Einstein himself, said there has to be some God. The greatest mind in history said that, so I think you have to look outside the box when thinking on this topic.

NO, im not telling you to convert to Christianity or anything.

oh, sorry Hidro, it doesn't matter though, i dont care.

Quote from Alien Anims

Hidro, dont bother to explain your beliefs. It doesn't matter what your say, some people will always find a way to counter a Christians argument.

I don't know if you noticed, but this is the debate section. If you don't want people to respond to your arguments, then don't post here. "Don't explain your beliefs" is fucking terrible advice.

Quote from Alien Anims

Even now, we say, well, "the Laws of Physics are just there, always have been always will be." Even though I thought science was supposed to be a reasonable explanation to natural events.

Science doesn't claim to understand everything, what's your point?

Quote from Alien Anims

If Einstein himself, said there has to be some God. The greatest mind in history said that, so I think you have to look outside the box when thinking on this topic.

Do you understand why he believed that? Could you explain his reasoning? Probably not, so I don't know what you're trying to say. He wasn't "the greatest mind in history" either, so don't act like he somehow understands the unknowable better than anyone else.

Quote from Alien Anims

IF the atheists are wrong, then they just go to hell.

Fuck that what the fuck. If god brings atheists to hell then hes an ass i love him to death but fuck that.

No, Exilement, I meant that if he was trying to say, "god does everything right , he does nothing wrong, he loves us all. That sort of crap, it doesn't work in the debate forum, because
there is nothing to back it.

Oh yeah, Einstein wasn't the greatest mind in history(just checked it out lol),and I mean, he explored-i believe-quantum physics, or something else(i forgot) and he studied alot of things. And if you studied that, you would think, holy hell, what the fuck is this? Because light, for example is a very complex thing. And the fact that he went as far as he did with it, its just unbelievable. Until it got to the point were he thought "natural events" didn't create such phenomenons(not light).

And he doesn't understand it better than anybody else. He was just a physicists who found the "secret formula" before others. And, I literally live in history. Watching countless in-detail documentaries and reading history books. You still might more know more than me though, since your like, a walking information robot Exilement(no offense)

As you may have noticed, I believe will all find out the real truth when we die.

I believe he is just and fair because of what I have seen personally in my life. My brother almost died, and I prayed, and he didn't. You may think whatever you want, but there is a reason to every thing he does.And leokill, when you said he does things with suffering, are you talking about when the bible says he has caused floods and other crap, or are you talking about jesus. Becuase the bible says god didnt do that to jesus. But rather, allowed it to happen.

Quote from Alien Anims

Leo kill, I would like to know how old you are, or, just a range. It doesn't have to be exact you cant probably see were Im going with this.

(if you reply, you will see how what Im saying will be on topic)

You use many great scientists and philosophers in your arguments, but what you fail to understand is that nobody is smart enough to know everything. Things that some scientist say might take another 100 generations to figure out. Even now, we say, well, "the Laws of Physics are just there, always have been always will be." Even though I thought science was supposed to be a reasonable explanation to natural events. You say his plans involve suffering, which it looks like to me too, but as the Bible says, nobody knows how he thinks. After all, if you watch "Life" on animal planet, (not on the show) but he is said to have created all animals. If you think about 1/5 of what animals do, you think, holly hell, this guy is a genius. A fantastic mind that no human will ever comprehend. If Einstein himself, said there has to be some God. The greatest mind in history said that, so I think you have to look outside the box when thinking on this topic.

NO, im not telling you to convert to Christianity or anything.

oh, sorry Hidro, it doesn't matter though, i dont care.

First of all I'm 16 but my age has absolutely nothing to do with this debate.

As Exilement said, science doesn't claim to know everything. The fact that we don't know something doesn't mean that we can start making stuff up to fill the gaps in our knowledge. As for god creating something as complex as the universe, that doesn't mean he is good. A lot of evil people are smart and creative. As for Einstein, that is a logical fallacy called the argument from authority. Einstein wasn't even a theist, he was a deist. He didn't believe in a personal intervening god, like christians do, so don't try to use him in your argument.

Quote from Alien Anims

My brother almost died, and I prayed, and he didn't.

My grandmother was sick, and I prayed. She died the next day. My grandfather was sick. I prayed. He died the next week. My great uncle was sick. I prayed. He seemed to make a recovery and then died in a span of two weeks. You claim that your god is just, but if he answers the prayers of some while leaving the rest to rot then that clearly isn't true; so you'll have to excuse my skepticism when all of your faith stems from completely arbitrary occurrences.

Quote from Alien Anims

I believe he is just and fair because of what I have seen personally in my life. My brother almost died, and I prayed, and he didn't. You may think whatever you want, but there is a reason to every thing he does.And leokill, when you said he does things with suffering, are you talking about when the bible says he has caused floods and other crap, or are you talking about jesus. Becuase the bible says god didnt do that to jesus. But rather, allowed it to happen.

So if your brother had died can you firmly say you would still believe? Think of all the horrible things that have happened in history, and even today. Are you saying that you'll believe in a god because something good happened to you while ignoring all the bad things that happen? And when someone allows something to happen it's arguable as immoral as doing it yourself.