Ok, is Pivot an animation program of the same caliber as Easytoon or Flash?

Pivfags, don't say "its better cause its free!" or something similar, base your argument off of somefacts.

THIS THREAD IS NOT AN INTENDED ATTACK ON PIVOT USERS, OR THE PIVOT SECTION.

I believe its not on the same level as easytoon or flash. Pivot practically animates for you, all you're doing is clicking and dragging pivot points each frame. But what amazes me most is that some people can SUCK at this. Pivot isn't that great a program, a neat toy, maybe. But it can not create great quality animations like the castle series. Even easytoon makes better animations than pivot and theres less suck involved. Some would argue that you get what you pay for. Well easytoon is free as well, and its alot better than pivot.

Pivot is inferior.
I really dislike it. Easytoon is epic. You can do so much. I prefer it to flash, also.

Anyway, Pivot, people could make it pretty awesome.
If somebody took the time to try a full-body pivot, including detail and colour, i think they'd be god.
All pivot seems to be is stick figures either fighting, or somebody tries making it random and fails miserably because they're using pivot.

Pivot fails in my eyes.

As I always argue in threads like this, its the animator that matters, not the program they use. Someone who sucks at animation using a "quality animation program" wont produce a better animation than a skilled animator using pivot.

Is a watercolour painting a less valid piece of art than an oil painting because it was done with more primitive paints?

You're really not making sense when you say things like:

Even easytoon makes better animations than pivot

Because Easytoon itself does not make animations. It is a tool used to create animations. It's the person using the program that decides how good the animation will be.

Quote from The Pirate

As I always argue in threads like this, its the animator that matters, not the program they use. Someone who sucks at animation using a "quality animation program" wont produce a better animation than a skilled animator using pivot.

Is a watercolour painting a less valid piece of art than an oil painting because it was done with more primitive paints?

You're really not making sense when you say things like:


Because Easytoon itself does not make animations. It is a tool used to create animations. It's the person using the program that decides how good the animation will be.

True, but pivot doesn't take much. It just consumes time. I've seen some very good pivot animations, but you can only do so much.
But, Easytoon is the same. All you have to do is be an alright artist and you can make a good animation. It is purely down to the animator.

Most people use pivot as a starting program, which may be to the reason it always looks so poor.

I still dis-like pivot, i think it needs to be stretched more, needs more options, more capabalities.

Pirate wins. /thread

Quote from The Pirate

As I always argue in threads like this, its the animator that matters, not the program they use. Someone who sucks at animation using a "quality animation program" wont produce a better animation than a skilled animator using pivot.

Is a watercolour painting a less valid piece of art than an oil painting because it was done with more primitive paints?

You're really not making sense when you say things like:


Because Easytoon itself does not make animations. It is a tool used to create animations. It's the person using the program that decides how good the animation will be.

I meant in general that easytoon animators are better than pivot animators. I'm sure people like DoD are alot better at animating than a person who just opened easytoon for the first time. What I meant by the topic was is pivot as an animation program on the same level as easytoon or flash. IN GENERAL.

I'm sure theres people out there that could make an uber quality animation with pivot if they had the chance, but I'm talking like, average pivot user vs, average easytoon or flash user.

I think the main reason the pivot crowd as a whole are seen as bad animators, is because pivot tends to attract stick figure animators. This makes sense of course, since pivot is designed with sticks in mind.

I personally can't stand 99% of stick figure animations, regardless of the program. I find them as a whole to be generic, uninspired, uncreative, formulaic and usually lacking in any sort of style. Sadly there's a whole crowd of animators who see a good animation as the one with the more realistic fighting moves, and strive only to make a smoother punch, or better blood. Pivot attracts these sort of animators.

Easytoon on the other hand, being so simplistic attracts a lot of frame by frame, and traditional style animators. The minimalistic nature of the program means there are no gimmicks to work with, you can't even use colours, so easytoon animators are forced to rely on nothing but creativity and style.

Naturally, different programs will attract different "breeds" of animators. This isn't a fault of the program itself. Bad animators who want to churn out generic stick fights are going to flock to the program that best suits this purpose, and pivot by design just happens to fulfill that niche quite nicely.

So basically each program draws in a certain stereo type? What about flash? thousands of stick figure animations are made in flash, and alot of them are more popular than stick figure animations in pivot. And fullbody is done in flash as well as easytoon. They draw both of the stereo types you mentioned before. although they repel the ones of that stereo type that can't afford it and/or don't want to pirate it. Also, how can you "improve" your blood in pivot? Its all essentially sprites that you download [mostly, some people do their own, I know.] People tend to strive for smoother moves, and better effects, regardless of sticks, fullbody, or program its in the nature of animating...

Well, personnally, I don't think it has anything to do with sticks. Some of the most epic animations ever were stick figure animations made in flash. I think that pivot is not a good program simply because of the users. I respect a great, quality pivot animation that someone acctually tried hard on, but the only reason I hate pivot is because it attracts all of the lazy noobs who think a crappy three frame animation is awesome.

Yes, I think Flash is better. But some people dont have or want to pay that much money for it. Trials are okay, but they dont last long. Easytoon is kinda crappy because I some people cant draw shit with a mouse plus it takes a bit longer. (i also hate that there are no colors). Pivot is simple, easy and popular, but it just sucks how the gif option turns its colors all gay. plus its less quality.

Quote from Sawc

Well, personnally, I don't think it has anything to do with sticks. Some of the most epic animations ever were stick figure animations made in flash. I think that pivot is not a good program simply because of the users. I respect a great, quality pivot animation that someone acctually tried hard on, but the only reason I hate pivot is because it attracts all of the lazy noobs who think a crappy three frame animation is awesome.

That makes sense, I suppose... >_>

Quote from nukem

Yes, I think Flash is better. But some people don't have or want to pay that much money for it. Trials are okay, but they don't last long. Easytoon is kinda crappy because I some people cant draw shit with a mouse plus it takes a bit longer. (i also hate that there are no colors). Pivot is simple, easy and popular, but it just sucks how the gif option turns its colors all gay. plus its less quality.

Pivot is cheap [not in the fact that its free, but how crapily made it is] and easytoon is the best free alternative. No other animation program is like pivot so you're not learning anything that can help you much in animation. Also, I said don't use the price as an argument, because easytoon is better and its the same price. Easytoon isn't that crappy, it even has onion skin! Plus as pirate said, you don't have to worry about color making you focus more on style. is simple and easy, yes but that part of what makes it crappy. it sacrifices the parts that are hard [redrawing and such], but you lose so much quality for ease, and you can change it.

It is all the animator and how he uses the program, I mean, sometime if I make an animation, some people literally say, "Is that Flash or Pivot?", maybe its the fact that I do add some flash into pivot, which is the way I use it, it's not the animaTION, its the animaTOR

Pivot is not really high quality.
There is a huge lack of options like brush, layers, and filters.
Also you don't have buttons, sounds, AS or anything relating to that.

When will people learn that animating skills are far more important than animating programs...