wall is easier to get i do believe

I've never met a Chaos turret yet, but if I have chaos, I'll make turrets and castle deads for my strat

Quote from _Aiman_

I've never met a Chaos turret yet, but if I have chaos, I'll make turrets and castle deads for my strat

I have only once met a player who used a turrent - and it was Crazy Jay!
The turret is so seldom used because its so crap compared to its cost.
The wall is so heavily used because it stops dead the advance, and can be incredible when you have say a shit-load of archers, or a giant/giants, or a mage behind it.
The observed fact; walls are used a lot, turrets are not used at all by most players.
The inevitable conclusion; the turret is simply not worth the cost.

Combined with the really weak castle dead, chaos has very little in terms of defence options.
Castle archer > castle dead.
Walls > turrets.

Needs balancing, to be honest.

Quote from uberman

I have only once met a player who used a turrent - and it was Crazy Jay!
The turret is so seldom used because its so crap compared to its cost.
The wall is so heavily used because it stops dead the advance, and can be incredible when you have say a shit-load of archers, or a giant/giants, or a mage behind it.
The observed fact; walls are used a lot, turrets are not used at all by most players.
The inevitable conclusion; the turret is simply not worth the cost.

Combined with the really weak castle dead, chaos has very little in terms of defence options.
Castle archer > castle dead.
Walls > turrets.

Needs balancing, to be honest.

Meaning Chaos excel in offense, while is crap at defense?
And Order excel in defense, while crap at offense?
Not really lol

Quote from _Aiman_

Meaning Chaos excel in offense, while is crap at defense?
And Order excel in defense, while crap at offense?
Not really lol

Not really what I was saying.
In some situations chaos is good at offence - but not all.
For example, on a short map like castle or gates your screwed as chaos against an agressive order player; because you are only able to use crawlers which are weaker than swords but have the same build time - so order has a huge aggressive benifit - pump out swords, get rage (which is far cheaper than the crawler buffs) and its a virtual auto win to order. The price of crawlesr is not the issue rather the build time, which is the same as swords - so you cant build more crawlers than he has swords, (time not cost) while swords are stronger than crawlers.
I.e. Crawlers can only match swords when they have an advantage in numbers, which cant happen in the early stages of a short map due to build time.

Quote from uberman

Not really what I was saying.
In some situations chaos is good at offence - but not all.
For example, on a short map like castle or gates your screwed as chaos against an agressive order player; because you are only able to use crawlers which are weaker than swords but have the same build time - so order has a huge aggressive benifit - pump out swords, get rage (which is far cheaper than the crawler buffs) and its a virtual auto win to order. The price of crawlesr is not the issue rather the build time, which is the same as swords - so you cant build more crawlers than he has swords, (time not cost) while swords are stronger than crawlers.
I.e. Crawlers can only match swords when they have an advantage in numbers, which cant happen in the early stages of a short map due to build time.

Oh...
This is so complicated, I must say.

Quote from _Aiman_

Oh...
This is so complicated, I must say.

OK, simple version;
Swords are stronger than crawlers in equal numbers. On a short map the swords reach the chaos base before chaos has enough time to build more crawlers than order has swords.
So agressive order with swords wins (even more so with rage) against agressive chaos with crawlers.

Quote from uberman

OK, simple version;
Swords are stronger than crawlers in equal numbers. On a short map the swords reach the chaos base before chaos has enough time to build more crawlers than order has swords.
So agressive order with swords wins (even more so with rage) against agressive chaos with crawlers.

yet again, ya failed to noticed that chaos is better than order in med and long map....
here's my idea to adjust the tower, it cost less to build, like 150 gold or something, done.
chaos is not mean for defense, it mean for the offense

Swordwrath mass?
Use bombers XD

Quote from 300noob

yet again, ya failed to noticed that chaos is better than order in med and long map....
here's my idea to adjust the tower, it cost less to build, like 150 gold or something, done.
chaos is not mean for defense, it mean for the offense

I didnt 'fail to notice' - I just used the specific example of a short map. I used it as an illustration of one situation where chaos cant by any stretch be said to be 'better than order when used aggresively'.
On a short map, order is
1 better at defence (walls > turret, castle archer > castle dead)
2 beter at early offence (swords > crawlers in equal numbers)

I think your right, reducing the cost of the turret would help. But bettre to reduce the mana to reseach the ability too, as its the early need for mana which i I think stops it being useful.

Quote from PsychoticCheez

The generalisation that Chaos is an offensive army should just be dropped. It starts pointless debates such as "crawlers should be able to outmatch swords in all offensive aspects because Chaos is offensive" etc. The Chaos army is what it is. Because of its composition, it's certainly harder (and a losing strategy) to play defensively, but it's army make up is not so because it is supposed to be offensive, so please stop trying to mould Chaos into the "uber offensive but no defense" army you think it should be.

I'm not arguing with uberman here, I completely agree that Order can dominate a short map e.g. Castle.
I'm saying that people should drop their ideas of balance which are based around Chaos supposedly being an offensive army.

I completely agree with the Chaos turret being underpowered. The only thing it can kill is swords and archers, due to poison. At 300 gold this is way too expensive.

This.
Yes, under some conditions chaos is great at offence, such as a long map. So is order, under some (other) conditions, such as a short map.
Its wrong to say chaois is offensive, therefore castle archers should be greater than castle dead, and walls should be greater than turrets.
As its wrong to say crawlers should be greater than swords.

IT SHOULD BE WELL BALANCED, obviously?

Less obviously, and more controvercially - if there is to be any imbalance it should be in favour of the pay-to-play chaos - FFS the game designers WANT people to pay so a paying member should get a race at least as strong as the free to play.
Thats not to say chaos and membership should be pay-to-win! but obviously, if you accept the propositions that
1. the designers want people to pay to play
2 people are less likely to pay for a weaker race

then you cant deny the inescapable conclusions that
1. chaos should be AT LEAST as strong as order
which means
2. if there is any imbalance it must be in favour of chaos.

they need aoe damage at least something of the sort!

Quote from uberman

This.
Yes, under some conditions chaos is great at offence, such as a long map. So is order, under some (other) conditions, such as a short map.
Its wrong to say chaois is offensive, therefore castle archers should be greater than castle dead, and walls should be greater than turrets.
As its wrong to say crawlers should be greater than swords.

IT SHOULD BE WELL BALANCED, obviously?

Less obviously, and more controvercially - if there is to be any imbalance it should be in favour of the pay-to-play chaos - FFS the game designers WANT people to pay so a paying member should get a race at least as strong as the free to play.
Thats not to say chaos and membership should be pay-to-win! but obviously, if you accept the propositions that
1. the designers want people to pay to play
2 people are less likely to pay for a weaker race

then you cant deny the inescapable conclusions that
1. chaos should be AT LEAST as strong as order
which means
2. if there is any imbalance it must be in favour of chaos.

-.- now ya just being "rock head"
every single debate ya have is biased on chaos favour.
i say just reduce the cost of the turret like cost 150 gold to build, done...the research cost as much as wall, done.

Quote from kingkickass2013

out of all the chaos games ive played, nobody has ever bothered using the turret, so im starting to think its nowhere near worth using its so underpowered

Nope, it's HORRIBLE. Same health as Meric, barely does any damage.