Quote from AsePlayer

miner wall <3

Ase please stop playing with people's nuts when they're pissed

Quote from AsePlayer

miner wall <3

Instant chaos win... miner wall costs 300 gold... and gives chaos total control of center, further putting order behind... but ase, what do you even know, u don't play anymore lmbo...

Archer pressure making use of wall means Chaos does not get a free win

Quote from ArcherFish

Ok then, let's see how u feel if someone blew up your miners in lag

Swords

To be the honest the whole idea that Chaos is OP is a myth to be honest its almost close to perfect balance. and if its not perfect its close enough to make every OvC/CvO a fair game. I don't really want to spend time backing this up (i don't post here actively enough anymore) but I talk from my limited personal experinece (my account still has free membership) and seeing many of the greatest players in the game master Chaos and or Order and do well.

The greatest credit to the game ignoring Elementals is the balance and not enough noise to be honest it made about that. The devs showed great honesty and integrity balancing a free and in game purchase empire.

So good job CJ lets praise him and his team for that

Chaos is OP in a sense that most players have less experience against Chaos so won't play as well. Unfortunately this also has nothing to do with Chaos gameplay balance so is not really something to fix.

Yeah, no abuse here at all... 2000 ping almost entire match...

but no king frauds doens't abuse at all, even when losing...
watch my units to totally haywire near end of game, wehn I took advantage then he lag fuc ked the rest of the match so I couldn't micro at all...

But no, I shouldn't get pi ssed about stuff like this, or the other abuse in SE, because even though I gave ase and CJ replays of abuse like this and even though others have reported kingtods/herald, it doesn't fu ckign exist.

What a fu ckng joke of a game this has become, where abusers and cheaters are protected instead of dealt with,

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay11780136&version=2.29

You want to know how bad tods lagged that match? It broke the SOUND to se on my laptop... the game sound stopped working the lag and ping was so bad. But no, no problems at all there...

Quote from alternate

Instant chaos win... miner wall costs 300 gold... and gives chaos total control of center, further putting order behind... but ase, what do you even know, u don't play anymore lmbo...

I know tons of things. I still play, just not on my main ;)

You lag a bit too alternate, and when I fight kingtods it's just laggy but not that extreme. Kingtods has really bad lag, and maybe he abuses. But he might just have really bad internet. Just because someone is lagging doesn't mean you report them and they should all be kicked and banned. Lag =/= cheating.

Could you elaborate on the statement that chaos is stronger in top level play? And how would you balance it?

Quote from nutsophast

Could you elaborate on the statement that chaos is stronger in top level play? And how would you balance it?

Crawler + bomber play shutdown any Order player without godly micro, which is already something that nobody can be consistent in. This means early game C is easier to be consistent (which is the most important thing to be in top level play). An example would be spacing of swords/archers, sword splits, predicting fakes and fallbacks in crawlers and catching him off with archers, and simply not losing archers to bombs. If you aren't able to execute all of those to a high degree of perfection, you'll fall behind.

Then you got deads which are the most 'cost-efficient' (nicer word for OP) unit in the game. Trains same as an archer, so you can field them at the same rate in mid-game, and the 100m cost of them and 300g cost of poison guts is more than made up for Chaos' stronger economy after early game skirmishes.

Nobody uses wings in CvO so their better balance is negligible.

TL;DR crawler + bomb early game is less volatile than sword/archer, and deads are just a big middle finger to any order player.

Quote from nutsophast

Could you elaborate on the statement that chaos is stronger in top level play? And how would you balance it?

Pretty much what zomar said

A top chaos player can snipe all swords of an order player with pure crawler+bombers without losing one single crawler.
Swords animations are far more difficult to manage comparing with crawler micro, crawler micro you just need to keep running back and forth and removing out the weak one to regenerate health
For swords, every low health one you have to garrison , which will then get your swords sniped . Weak crawlers can still involve in battle, but weak swords can just garrison and make the army weaker.
Also, swords split and archer kiting requires heavy spacing to dodge the AoE bomber, chaos player don't need to worry about it at all, just either go for miners if the swords split, and go for swords that do not split.

Some order players may tell me not to use sword start but use archer start, I spent a long time to test on both . I can safely say, archer start is nothing better than sword start.

Deads always come out exactly same time as archer, and one dead with couple bombers and crawlers behind is enough to stop 3-4 archers approach. Once a row of deads are set up, what a chaos player need to do is just to get couple jugs, tower spawn, a medusa, then auto-win .
Castle archer is nearly useless against chaos, because deads player just need to make their deads stand in front of 2nd row of gold, to block all economy from the order player. And deads can out-range CA to destroy the spear/miner wall as well.

If a chaos player use wings, an order player can at least set spear wall + meric to tank it for a while. Deads stop any possible turtle/defence, as long as an order player gets spear/meric, all die within seconds . If an order player goes for ninjas, chaos player can stun ninjas with jugger charge, and even ninja kill a dead/jug, a 1v1 trade still favors chaos player.

Unless an order player can bring out deathball, otherwise chaos rape order.

Top level play, the top level is like 2.4k+ , like me/zomar/ otaku, we all main order for 2 years, and only played chaos for short period of time, but we stood almost no chance against each other's chaos.
For most other players , the game is actually very balanced for all three empires.

It doesn't make sense that the game is balanced for low level and not top level play IMO. Lower level players can take advantage of these issues, plus the lag + bomb, just as much as top.

I agree with mystery but still there is a big chance of getting small maps in CvO which is insta win for order. There is no way to stop SA or MSS with chaos unless order player is noob. On the middle-sized maps empires are balanced.

@mysterybat @zomar Thanks for the replies. If you don't mind, how would you balance this?