this was recently posted on the pivot section, but i was told to move it here... move or delete if needed

I have noticed that recently the pivot section has lost more and more of its well animating pivoteers. Because of this, almost all of the animators here are new to the program and are using it for practice before stepping into flash.

What is the point of this topic? Why am I pointing out the obvious?
The reason for this post is that the pivot section is turning into a waist of forum space as more and more new animators are coming. It seems that now, only new animators post their animations and critique. Of course there isn’t much problem with this except for one thing: no one is improving.

I’m sure that this section was put here for a reason: to help new animators get better so they can move up to more elaborate programs and skills.
But with Zed gone and many other helpful criticizers, the section is becoming a place where users can just post… well… whatever their current animating skill is and being praised for it. Many animators never have improved since this time.

Here is an example:
http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?50204-my-oldest-animation-Check-this-out-you-have-to-see-this

Although these animations aren’t terribly bad, just look at the comments! This new pivoter has received no help at all and now thinks he is the best he can be.
Sorry Lord Agung.

Anyway, my point is, I would like to help these new animators. And in order to do this, I would like to have more help or somehow be more helpful to these upcoming great animators. I realize and understand why the pivot section is so inactive, I get that. I just wish the community would realize that most great animators start here.
Ya, I know I sound preachy, but I just wanted to make a statement to show what I have observed. I don’t want it to become a trend that will last any longer.

So ya. If there is anything you guys would like to change or prove wrong, go for it. I just want to keep this section alive and have it be a learning base for new comers. now, discuss.

the pivot section needs some love, and the animators need help

Well, I see what you mean. I came back to wish Zed good-bye but I think the Pivot section needs some luvin. My luvin.

Well, tbh nobody uses it anymore. There's an obscure few though, but they frequent a different forum. I forgot what it was.

If you manage to get a pivot animation in the stickpage front page, that would maybe encourage more people to try and use it.

Most people on here use Flash. I was considering removing the sub-sections a while back and just making it "community animations" because really it shouldn't matter what tool you use so long as the end result is getting commented on. I think more and more that this would probably be the best bet, as there's no point in having subforums no one uses. Pivot is alright for animation, but the majority of Stickpage doesn't use it, so I don't really see a point in catering to it. If someone really wants to have a specific place for Pivot stuff, Dark Demon is the best choice.

Quote from Jeff

Most people on here use Flash. I was considering removing the sub-sections a while back and just making it "community animations" because really it
shouldn't matter what tool you use so long as the end result is getting commented on

That's a good point, subsections only divide the animation community into three arbitrary groups, and the Flash section is so active compared to the other two that it makes Pivot/Easytoon animators feel alienated from the community. It doesn't help that those two programs are mostly used by beginners, so the few decent animators are forced to show their work to a very limited and inexperienced segment of the memberbase. Which discourages any decent animators from staying here in the first place, and perpetuates the kind of problem Stickly is talking about.

It'd be ridiculous if a music production forum had distinct sections for FL Studio, Cubase, Logic, Reason, Ableton, ACID, Sonar, Garage Band, Studio One.... most advice is universal and independent of the program you use. Having sections for program-specific tutorials is a good idea, but dividing the actual community based on their workflow doesn't benefit anyone in any way.

Quote from mizu

Well, I see what you mean. I came back to wish Zed good-bye but I think the Pivot section needs some luvin. My luvin.

thanks for that.

Well, tbh nobody uses it anymore. There's an obscure few though, but they frequent a different forum. I forgot what it was.

If you manage to get a pivot animation in the stickpage front page, that would maybe encourage more people to try and use it.

Darkdemon.org is the forum, and I'm not sure a pivot animation could be posted on the frontpage. there have been a few that I thought were worthy and never got even noticed...

Most people on here use Flash. I was considering removing the sub-sections a while back and just making it "community animations" because really it shouldn't matter what tool you use so long as the end result is getting commented on. I think more and more that this would probably be the best bet, as there's no point in having subforums no one uses. Pivot is alright for animation, but the majority of Stickpage doesn't use it, so I don't really see a point in catering to it. If someone really wants to have a specific place for Pivot stuff, Dark Demon is the best choice.

That is exactly why I brought up that it was becoming a waist of forum space. darkdemon is a great forum for hard working pivoteers, but is strict and competitive.
Most people don't even know about darkdemon though, that is one problem, and also many new pivoteers come here because it has lower expectations.

however, now all the pivoters have left to DD and have caused many problems.
I like your idea, i think it could help.

that's a good point, subsections only divide the animation community into three arbitrary groups, and the Flash section is so active compared to the other two that it makes Pivot/Easytoon animators feel alienated from the community. It doesn't help that those two programs are mostly used by beginners, so the few decent animators are forced to show their work to a very limited and inexperienced segment of the memberbase. Which discourages any decent animators from staying here in the first place, and perpetuates the kind of problem Stickly is talking about.

It'd be ridiculous if a music production forum had distinct sections for FL Studio, Cubase, Logic, Reason, Ableton, ACID, Sonar, Garage Band, Studio One.... most advice is universal and independent of the program you use. Having sections for program-specific tutorials is a good idea, but dividing the actual community based on their workflow doesn't benefit anyone in any way.

All very true.

If the flash guys don't mind, I think the pivoteers and easytooners will be better there. It'll also end the confusion whenever someone wants to use stykz or tisfat.

OOOOooooo a seal of approval :O

also, i am happy to see that this thread has helped. finally some real CnC and help has reached to the pivot section.

Instead of the sub forums being for the separate programs, I think it should be divided into "practice" And "full length/complete". That way, if I wanted to see some quality and finished animations, I could go to that section. And if I needed cnc on a short effect or movement test, then I could put it in the practice section. I think that would be best so I wouldn't have to scroll past tons of shitty 4 second animations to see some quality stuff.

Quote from Cruel

Instead of the sub forums being for the separate programs, I think it should be divided into "practice" And "full length/complete". That way, if I wanted to see some quality and finished animations, I could go to that section. And if I needed cnc on a short effect or movement test, then I could put it in the practice section. I think that would be best so I wouldn't have to scroll past tons of shitty 4 second animations to see some quality stuff.

hmm. interesting. this is turning into a wider subject

I wouldnt have any problem leaving every program together.
We should have a "Constructive Criticism Central" were people who really wants to improve posts his animation, explaining what he wanted to achieve and asking for help, there only full fledged critiques should be allowed as replies.
Kinda like Deviantart's request a critique option but forum version.
or maybe that's a bad idea...?

I won't mind. Been waiting for one for Pivot and Easytoons (mostly Pivot). Let's see if the others agree.

Quote from Jombo

Are rants a thing on Stickpage now?

Yes

One of these days I plan to engage in an incredibly elaborate tirade about the forum's dire need for individual animation threads, but another time, perhaps.

Quote from Hidro

We should have a "Constructive Criticism Central" were people who really wants to improve posts his animation, explaining what he wanted to achieve and asking for help, there only full fledged critiques should be allowed as replies.
Kinda like Deviantart's request a critique option but forum version.
or maybe that's a bad idea...?

It's an good idea lol. We could also have the opposite. I mean, it could kind of like be the "Freestyle Animation" sub-forum on DD, which basically was for people who wanted to post animations just to post it, and not to get CnC or be ranked by it, huzzah

I was just thinking about that.

I think that it would be a great idea to have a "freestyle" animation section.

you can't expect every section in the forum to be as active as the other.

Just remove the subsections. Everyone will be happy like that.