I really think that free will is just an illusion.

When we are born, our minds are nothing but instinct. As we learn, we gain mental pathways through which connections are made. For instance, we first begin to make connections like bottle::milk and ::ball::enjoyment.

We begin to learn language, and that works in the same way: we learn how to structure language, we learn how things are funny, etc.

Socialization follows the same pattern. We learn to converse well, we learn that some things aren't appropriate.

Sometimes we'll see a propane tank and it will trigger us to wonder why it is in a different place than where we last left it.

Occasionally, we will arrive at home and there will be a window open that isn't supposed to be open, and that will cause us to always check things like that before leaving.


This goes hand-in-hand with Chaos Theory: nothing is really random. If a drop of rain falls, it's not out of randomness, it's because of the different concentrations of gas, the speed and direction of wind at all the different elevations, what molecules it happened to hit on the way down, and many other variables.

Thought works the same way: if you have a conversation, just watch its progression: you'll see that there was always some train of word association, observations, or subject associations that change and progress the subject.

Every event in our life shapes our being in some way. We only really repeat what we are taught: new ideas emerge as a result of using different thought pathways on different ideas.

The result of this is that we don't actually have "free will". Free will would be the ability to think in a way completely different than anyone ever has, to act in a completely unnpredictable way (You may try to act unpedictably, but what you consider to be unpredictable is a result of what you consider to be predictable)

Discuss.

By posting this subject you are exerting your will. (My language is off today)

It doesn't matter whether "I did it because ...." because in the end, you chose to do it, whether the circumstances forced you into it or not.

Quote from adrenalineflash

By posting this subject you are exerting your will. (My language is off today)

It doesn't matter whether "I did it because ...." because in the end, you chose to do it, whether the circumstances forced you into it or not.

But it does matter in discussions about psychology, religion, and a great many other subjects.

And my posting the subject was a result of all the debates, observations, and other factors that led me into interest in the topic.

Alas, you chose to do it because of those things, those things did not force you to post.

It's sort of like the nature vs nurture argument.

You're saying that our nature has nothing to do with it? At all?

@Adreneline: No, those are the things that urged me to post. They were the root of my desire, and my intent to fufill my desires is rooted in my genetic code.

If I had decided NOT to make this thread, it would have been because of an observation or a prediction based on past occurances.

@Bonk: I am saying that our nature, or what instinct and our hard coding make of us, is all just that: instinct. It's not choice to flinch when something flies at your head, because if you choose not to flinch, it's because you are trying to prove something or condition yourself or something: it has a reason, a cause.

I agree completely, if we really did have free will and tried to do something completely unexpected, (I just said banana outloud) then we would have to already expect us to say that before we can say that, and by knowing what your going to do you have no free will

Ash, how come you became Atheist in a Christian family when many don't?

This forum.

I refuse to believe that we don't have free will, it seems ludicrous and idiotic. I dont really know why, but it seems like such bullshit to me. It also seems like a cop out, NO I DIDN'T KILL THAT GUY, IT WAS THE CHEMICALS AND EXPERIENCES INSIDE OF ME!!!! How do you prosecute someone without free will?

Its no better than saying the devil made me do it.

It's not the "chemicals and experiences", it is the events in the killer's life, and his influenced reactions to them, that caused him to.

I don't like the idea of no free will, but Ash has a point.

What is free will? The ability to make a choice.

Now, you can be influenced by your surroundings, but you choose to make decisions based on your environment.

But maybe the influences always make you choose a certain path.

Quote from bonk

But maybe the influences always make you choose a certain path.

Thats avoiding responsibility.

The debate is whether it is all subconscious; if you're father told you that X team was going to lose, and the next day your friend asked, you would probably say "red team will lose" without thinking of your dad.