Quote from Preserve

To me the screams for help sounded like a teenager

The audio was analyzed by experts, and even then it wasn't clear who the screams were coming from. It could've been either of them, or both, the audio quality is too low to say for sure.

The court dismissed its validity as evidence, so using it in this discussion seems a little pointless.

Based on the phone call Zimmerman made to the police that really sounded like him screaming :/

Quote from Arch-Angel

Based on the phone call Zimmerman made to the police that really sounded like him screaming :/

He was talking to the police. Of course, he would scream. Although, honestly, I don't think someone would be able to talk to the popo while someone else is on you beating the crap out of your guts.

And, about the tweets thing, well, they're all retweets I think and most of it sounds like he's doing something similar to quoting posts and putting them in your sig, albeit, more thrashy and vulgar.

This one wasn't too bad:

RT @PrettyMeStarr: White People’(s) Call Police , Black People’(s) Call There Cousin

Problem is it has bad grammar.

Well if you're hanging out with a bunch of criminals, you may not be one but you might as well be by association. The same thing applies here.

As for the phone call I was referencing the pitch if his voice. I can believe that with a soft voice like that you can scream at a higher pitch if your life is in danger. Black people typically have deeper voices. I would say the cries for help sound like they're coming from Zimmerman or a twelve year old trayvon. They do not sound like a young black adult who seems very ghetto. Plus why would trayvon be crying for help when he had no injuries other than his knuckles? Which is enough evidence to brand him as the attacker.

Quote from Preserve

I don't understand why people are still using past history of these people as evidence. Has anyone considered that the injuries zimmerman contained were from self-defense by trayvon? I posted this before and I want people to look into. http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?article=9924394. These are the 911 calls from the night of the confrontation. The third 911 call was from anonymous caller and in the background you can hear screams for help and then a gun shot. To me the screams for help sounded like a teenager and if it was a teenager then it was Trayvon who was screaming for help. And if it was Trayvon who was screaming for help, then he didn't attack him to cause bodily harm, but in self-defense.

1. If we don't judge him on past history, on what should we actually base our judgement of character?
The way he looked?

2. You have shown no evidence of Zimmerman having injuries that point to him showing physical aggression, unlike has been done with Trayvon.

The phonecall thing has already been addressed.

No matrix. The point is since there was a fight and trayvon was the only one with bruised knuckles that means it was a one sided fight which means Zimmerman was in fact getting bet to a pulp which justifies him resulting to shooting trayvon. There was a court case to establish whether or not it was an act of self defense or second degree murder. It's obvious Zimmerman did not have the intention to kill as he only shot once.

Quote from Arch-Angel

No matrix. The point is since there was a fight and trayvon was the only one with bruised knuckles that means it was a one sided fight which means Zimmerman was in fact getting bet to a pulp which justifies him resulting to shooting trayvon. There was a court case to establish whether or not it was an act of self defense or second degree murder. It's obvious Zimmerman did not have the intention to kill as he only shot once.

I was just reminding him. And, please, call me Naimad.

Second, not to disagree completely, but, there isn't much of a way to be sure a person who got would survive. People can survive a shot to the head and die from a shot to the leg. There's no "It's just a flesh wound." and Zimmerman probably didn't think of any of this at the time and just wanted to get the kid off him, anyway. So, there wasn't much "intent" there just mainly "Oh, shet." and "Get it off me!".

It has been stated previously that Zimmerman shot Treyvon both because he was being attacked and because he believed that Treyvon saw the gun he had on his person. He then drew his gun and shot Treyvon. Treyvon Martin had injuries on his knuckles, showing that they were against something repeatedly (which matches up pretty well with him beating a man up), and the bullet wound. Zimmerman had a broken nose, bruising on the front and back of his head, and lots of scrapes and other things on the back of his head, which, while not concretely proving his head was pound against concrete, does most likely put him on the bottom, as well as the fact that his clothing was wetter on the back and had some grass stains (he did state he was trying to get to the grass to cushion some of the blows).

Now, it is entirely impossible for anyone to say who actually started the conflict. I don't believe Zimmerman should be charged with second degree murder, but I do feel he should be charged with manslaughter. As he had been taking some MMA lessons for some time, as well as the fact that if he was in said "ground and pound" position, he should have been able to put up at least some resistance at some point. I think that using his gun was an entirely uncalled for action, though, it was entirely for self defense. I would assume that he would at the least be able to put up his arms to block some of the hits, but, this is not the case (no reports of any defensive wounds on Zimmerman, only the head injuries). So, while the tapes can provide a bit of insight, we can't entirely trust them, or at the least, put them as circumstantial. Long story short, I think Zimmerman is guilty of overreacting, but it was a justified overreaction. Treyvon wasn't a saint (and was possibly paranoid, even possibly still under the effects of a drug at the time, and a possible long time drug user), but neither do I believe he should've been shot first.

Quote from Azure Kite

Now, it is entirely impossible for anyone to say who actually started the conflict. I don't believe Zimmerman should be charged with second degree murder, but I do feel he should be charged with manslaughter. As he had been taking some MMA lessons for some time, as well as the fact that if he was in said "ground and pound" position, he should have been able to put up at least some resistance at some point.

If I understand this correctly, you're confusing Zimmerman with Treyvon. Treyvon was the one studying MMA and had Zimmerman in the "ground and pound" position, hence the beating Zimmerman took. If Zimmerman was indeed the one studying MMA, then theoretically the gun would be unnecessary in this situation.

Quote from Vertigo

If I understand this correctly, you're confusing Zimmerman with Treyvon. Treyvon was the one studying MMA and had Zimmerman in the "ground and pound" position, hence the beating Zimmerman took. If Zimmerman was indeed the one studying MMA, then theoretically the gun would be unnecessary in this situation.

Looking at a statement Zimmerman made from the trial, he had been studying MMA. It is entirely possible that both were studying it. That's why I said that I believe Zimmerman resorting to the gun was a bit too much, especially since he did nothing to defend himself.

Quote from Azure Kite

It has been stated previously that Zimmerman shot Treyvon both because he was being attacked and because he believed that Treyvon saw the gun he had on his person. He then drew his gun and shot Treyvon. Treyvon Martin had injuries on his knuckles, showing that they were against something repeatedly (which matches up pretty well with him beating a man up), and the bullet wound. Zimmerman had a broken nose, bruising on the front and back of his head, and lots of scrapes and other things on the back of his head, which, while not concretely proving his head was pound against concrete, does most likely put him on the bottom, as well as the fact that his clothing was wetter on the back and had some grass stains (he did state he was trying to get to the grass to cushion some of the blows).

Now, it is entirely impossible for anyone to say who actually started the conflict. I don't believe Zimmerman should be charged with second degree murder, but I do feel he should be charged with manslaughter. As he had been taking some MMA lessons for some time, as well as the fact that if he was in said "ground and pound" position, he should have been able to put up at least some resistance at some point. I think that using his gun was an entirely uncalled for action, though, it was entirely for self defense. I would assume that he would at the least be able to put up his arms to block some of the hits, but, this is not the case (no reports of any defensive wounds on Zimmerman, only the head injuries). So, while the tapes can provide a bit of insight, we can't entirely trust them, or at the least, put them as circumstantial. Long story short, I think Zimmerman is guilty of overreacting, but it was a justified overreaction. Treyvon wasn't a saint (and was possibly paranoid, even possibly still under the effects of a drug at the time, and a possible long time drug user), but neither do I believe he should've been shot first.

This post pretty much sums it up but, I doubt Travis saw the gun, because, it would've probably been a different story if so and concealed carry and whatnot. Perhaps what happened was that they confronted each other and as Zimmerman begins to pull the gun, Travis attacks him, knocking him to the ground causing the wounds and the claimed "ground and pound" position. Then, obviously, Zimmerman was like "WTF?!" and freaking out and shot him. I still think this was a case of both subjects freaking out and then here we have the outcome of this confrontation.

Quote from '[Naimad

MatrixNinja2000;1044816']Well, Trayvon got shot, which was the whole point of the court case.

Obviously, my post only pointed out the fact that it seems like Trayvon was actually the one to start the fight. How it ended had nothing to do with this specific statement.

I wonder, Azure Kite, have you ever been hit in the face? It isn't as easy as you might think. You get dizzy and it is very hard to see, getting up to put up his arms is much easier said then done. Add in his head injury I think it is safe to assume Zimmerman had little to no reliable vision, trying to get up and fight isn't the same as talking about it.

Regarding him being punished for this, Exilement has already given you a pretty good answer in regards to that: http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?74281-Should-Zimmerman-be-guilty&p=1037642&viewfull=1#post1037642

Quote from Gunnii

Obviously, my post only pointed out the fact that it seems like Trayvon was actually the one to start the fight. How it ended had nothing to do with this specific statement.

I wonder, Azure Kite, have you ever been hit in the face? It isn't as easy as you might think. You get dizzy and it is very hard to see, getting up to put up his arms is much easier said then done. Add in his head injury I think it is safe to assume Zimmerman had little to no reliable vision, trying to get up and fight isn't the same as talking about it.

Regarding him being punished for this, Exilement has already given you a pretty good answer in regards to that: http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?74281-Should-Zimmerman-be-guilty&p=1037642&viewfull=1#post1037642

Yes, of course. And, Exile's post really got it. Who was the one who continued this discussion?

Zimmerman stated that Trayvon saw his gun and threatened to kill him. Criticizing him for not using lethal force at that point is ridiculous.

You could argue that he should get a manslaughter charge for imperfect self-defense, but only if this occurred in one of the four states with a legal system that actually recognizes that. Even in those states it's under specific conditions and there's not enough evidence to prove he used excessive force, so it's a poor argument either way.