The damages.

You know, I'm kind of glad that school started. League has been so retarded as of late and I need a break from cancer.

Time to rant again.

Of course, every game I had with Garen was winning the lane, losing the game. Riven DC'd at the begging, giving me a pretty comfortable headstart. Their jungler Vi came in to defend the lane but I was level 4, she was 2. I shat on her so hard, standing in front of minions, denying her of any CS, while last hitting like a boss. Killed her under the tower at level 5, regen op, riven reconnected. She's duo-ing with Vi now, no big deal. I can handle that because I'm Garen. Got back and bought a brutalizer, boots of swiftness and potions, came to find that she just got top tower. It's ok considering that I got her tower before I b'd, don't know what our jungler reksai was doing. I decide to roam when I find Lux was 8 kills and was simply dominating mid. I look at bottom lane to find their MF dc'd, our thresh too. Don't know what our teemo was doing because their Braum was fed (?!). Tried to roam and assist as best as I can, getting mid turret, dragon, buffs for our ahri, tanking everyone's q, baron. Tower doesn't hurt at all when I had warmogs and spirit visage, regen op as heck. Then it came into late game where everyone keeps doing 2v4s and dying non-stop. Tried to help, died. It doesn't really matter since I'm a tank, but the thing was they keep fighting even when I died. Or that few seconds where I retreated for a bit because I was low and they kept fighting, and well, dying. When I came back they wept out my team and was heading to mid turret, which I successfully defend because I'm the only one with 10+ kills, and less than 5 deaths. I could like, 1v2 most of them without a sweat. I even let myself get caught so that my team could do damage but sadly they don't. Lux specifically bought 2 morellonocimons, the others bought last whisper, void staff just to counter me when everyone else was squishy fuckers.

gg no re, I'm not gonna league for some time.

Quote from Miracle

I finally saved up enough IP to buy a champ, no more f2p for me ^^

Can't decide whether to get Lissandra for poking and fast lane pushing or Tresh for grabbing and pulling.

When you decide for a champion by his strengths, you should consider also his/her weaknesses

It's true that Lissandra can poke and push as hell, but remember that all of her abilities (except her W) cost a lot of mana: you have to always care for your passive while laning, otherwise you'll find yourself mana-starving
Also, despite having her E, she isn't that mobile: the E cd is 24 seconds until you start maxing it (which is lvl 14) and if she gets cced before activating it again you can't use it
However, she's quite a safe choice nowadays with all the Zeds around, since you completely counter his ultimate and mobility

About Thresh, he's actually the most picked champ in all league as he's believed to be un-counterable, since his kit gives him burst (ap), armor and the ability to poke (E passive), engage, disengage and reposition his allies/opponents
However, he has 2 major weaknesses: his passive and no sustain
He has to constantly be on the first line gathering souls. Also, he does not get magic resistance per level. Lastly, he does not offer any direct utility to his allies if not his lantern and the lantern's shield
Basically, he's countered by poke and AP champs. In fact, if he gets on low HP in the early phase, he's pretty much screwed up: he can't acquire souls without risking death, if he recalls he loses acquirable souls and if he doesn't have enough souls (or health) he can't actually engage on the enemy, limiting his utility
This is a little chart about his soul efficiency to understand it better
-less than 100 souls: you need armor
-between 100 and 200 souls: you're ok for armor (at 115 you get as much armor as maokai on lvl 18 (which is the highest)), you need mr, health and if you want a little offensive bonus
-over 200 souls: you need only mr and health (basically, spirit visage and banshee), for the rest you can go full offensive

To end it, Thresh is a champion like Leona: he has 50/50 chances to snowball or ruin the lane


About AD Thresh, he has only 2 downsizes
First one is that he isn't that mobile as an AD DPS ranged champ
Second is that his attack wind-up (basically, the time between you right-clicking an enemy and you character dealing damage) is actually nerfed: while for every other champions the attack wind-up speed grows with their attack speed, Thresh gets 0.25% attack wind-up speed for evey 1% of attack speed

Thresh Adc is basically Kog maw without abilities.

The reason why ADC plays ez,mf, corki, vaurs, caitlyn, twitch. is because they have attacks at ranged and abilities that don't require them to into into the thick of things where AOES are happening and melee bruisers are blowing **** up.

Look at what thresh has to do to even use his abilities. He has to jump into the middle of the team fight to lock down bruiser tanks with all having warmogs/health items..
I don't even give a cra*p if his passive does decent damage, you can only use it once in a fight and lets not forget that his range is short as fu*k and you have to basically jump inbetween the enemy team to do the slightest of damage that your passive does, which is about 200+/- damage at THE BEST. Let's not forget the fact that he has 10 second cooldown on his AD% ability. And it's likely down for last-hitting.

I rest my case. People please stop thinking thresh is a viable ADC.

High base stats. low scalings. designed for support! Poor range. Every other ADC will outdamage/sustain you late game. If you think it's good idea you are either a newbie or a increadibly low elo player who has never watched LCS; LPL; CK ..etc.



I am not a challenger player, but damn, if it was viable the pros would been playing him. We gave him a chance and it didn't work, supports are designed to be supports.

Quote from Exxonite

Thresh Adc is basically Kog maw without abilities.

The reason why ADC plays ez,mf, corki, vaurs, caitlyn, twitch. is because they have attacks at ranged and abilities that don't require them to into into the thick of things where AOES are happening and melee bruisers are blowing **** up.

Look at what thresh has to do to even use his abilities. He has to jump into the middle of the team fight to lock down bruiser tanks with all having warmogs/health items..
I don't even give a cra*p if his passive does decent damage, you can only use it once in a fight and lets not forget that his range is short as fu*k and you have to basically jump inbetween the enemy team to do the slightest of damage that your passive does, which is about 200+/- damage at THE BEST. Let's not forget the fact that he has 10 second cooldown on his AD% ability. And it's likely down for last-hitting.

I rest my case. People please stop thinking thresh is a viable ADC.

High base stats. low scalings. designed for support! Poor range. Every other ADC will outdamage/sustain you late game. If you think it's good idea you are either a newbie or a increadibly low elo player who has never watched LCS; LPL; CK ..etc.



I am not a challenger player, but damn, if it was viable the pros would been playing him. We gave him a chance and it didn't work, supports are designed to be supports.

While I agree with a lot of the points you made, I don't agree that he isn't viable. I thought the same thing when I first saw it but with my support I saw first hand that it can work. That was in a match where everyone was silver or gold ranked, except for me since I'm un-ranked.
You're thinking only in terms of his team fighting and aren't considering his laning which can be pretty scary. We got a couple kills with his hook and my aqua prison early game and once he had enough money for a BF sword we triple killed bot lane when their jungler tried to help them. By the time team fighting started we were so far ahead of them that his kit didn't matter so much because with an aqua prison he basically annihilated whoever I captured in it. Also as a marksman role being able to hook people is surprisingly useful since they'll be trying to focus you down.

But I'm just sick in general of people trying to break the meta and causing the whole team to lose. Like I've faced a couple lee sin supports lately and I'm not entirely certain what people think he brings to the table. With us being careful he literally can't do shit except for occasionally poke and he's an excuse for me to farm pants shitting amounts of gold with a spell thiefs edge.

If you want to win, you better stick to the meta unless you're 100% positive that what you're doing will be just as good as playing the game the way it's intended to be played.

Because when you get right down to it, would it do just as well as a real marksman or a real support? Assuming you don't just cheese people out.

Quote from Jutsu

While I agree with a lot of the points you made, I don't agree that he isn't viable. I thought the same thing when I first saw it but with my support I saw first hand that it can work. That was in a match where everyone was silver or gold ranked, except for me since I'm un-ranked.
You're thinking only in terms of his team fighting and aren't considering his laning which can be pretty scary. We got a couple kills with his hook and my aqua prison early game and once he had enough money for a BF sword we triple killed bot lane when their jungler tried to help them. By the time team fighting started we were so far ahead of them that his kit didn't matter so much because with an aqua prison he basically annihilated whoever I captured in it. Also as a marksman role being able to hook people is surprisingly useful since they'll be trying to focus you down.

But I'm just sick in general of people trying to break the meta and causing the whole team to lose. Like I've faced a couple lee sin supports lately and I'm not entirely certain what people think he brings to the table. With us being careful he literally can't do shit except for occasionally poke and he's an excuse for me to farm pants shitting amounts of gold with a spell thiefs edge.

If you want to win, you better stick to the meta unless you're 100% positive that what you're doing will be just as good as playing the game the way it's intended to be played.

Because when you get right down to it, would it do just as well as a real marksman or a real support? Assuming you don't just cheese people out.

About meta talking, you don't need a 100% positivity of what you're doing. Only to know the strengths and weaknesses of your champion

Example
I remember when, having ended with the support role, I decided to not use my usual champion (leona, morgana, blitz, ecc.) but instead to use others. This resulted into me using 3 different champs for the bot lane

The first I used was Nautilus, since he has massive amounts of cc
The lane was actually a piece of cake: they didn't poke a lot and Nautilus' Q is way more difficult to dodge than blitz one and once you get their adc he's literally demolished
We won that match

The second one I used was Fiddlestick, which was on free week
The lane was horrible: I didn't know which skill raise max first, thus ending being useless and feeding the lane
We lost that match

The third one I used was Viktor
The lane was excellent: they couldn't in any way react to my poke and if they tried to hard engage I could easily burst them before they would actually get to us
We won that match, with me having a full stacked Mejai

What I'm talking about is the fact that these are all first-time experiences and the only one who failed was with a champ I don't know to use
Thus, my opinion is not that you must have fire-proof ways to break the meta (because in that way you end into another "meta rule"), nor that you should approach it casually, but that as long as you know the strengths and the weaknesses of your champ you can play him everywhere

I must respectfully disagree. I don't think that I can take my Lulu top lane just because I know her strengths and weaknesses.


What a game this was, holy shit.
Epic 20 minute FF.

Quote from Miccool

But lulu is played top lol.

Not well she isn't.

At least not that I'm aware of.

Nah.. in the current meta, she's actually more viable in the top lane than as support in high level games lol. They play her top in the lcs. They actually had to nerf her cause her laning was too strong

Alright, I'll give you that.

But it was an off the top of my head example. Allow me to rephrase.

Janna top lane.

I think breaking the meta only works people are not used to people using them. Also it can only work when you're used to that champion; and being able to adapt accordingly to build the champ accordingly.

I can make sona go mid or top, she's pretty easy to use, and I'm used to building her support and mage. Transitioning into a mage with her isn't really hard because you just have to take out sighstone and spellthief out of my build.

I can use thresh excellently but I just can't build him AD. It's really different from how you build him as a support tank; you get completely different stuff for him. Last hitting in laning phase is easy, yes, but adc's need to be the one who's dealing constant damage to everyone. With thresh's meager range, all abilities that sometimes unable to reach other adc will reach him. Thus, it becomes more risky fro him to deal the damage that he needs to do.

Quote from Miccool

Nah.. in the current meta, she's actually more viable in the top lane than as support in high level games lol. They play her top in the lcs. They actually had to nerf her cause her laning was too strong

I remember that patch, god I was so happy for that
For those who do not remember, before patch 4.13 her Q slow scaled with her AP. Basically, it worked in this way: now, it currently slows enemy by 80% and decays to 0% from 1 to 2 seconds (depending on rank); before, you could alter the decay cap with AP, increasing it by 13,3% for every 100 AP (like, instead of decaying from 80% to 0%, it decayed from 80% to 13.3%). Because of this, her Q was a spammable and better version of Thresh's wall, which is considered the hardest and longest slow in the game (99%)(excluding Nasus W, obviously), thus making her impossible to escape from or to be reached

Quote from Jutsu

Alright, I'll give you that.

But it was an off the top of my head example. Allow me to rephrase.

Janna top lane.

Janna top lane (full AP) is actually a good viable choice, since
-Full AP Janna deals more dmg than one might think about (Q and W)
-Her shield let her not only counter champions with poke (Gankplank, Pantheon, ecc. (she doesn't counter them full though)), but also to hug tower with less risks, since she can shield it
-Her passive makes her damn slippery, letting her not only poke the opponents, but also able to escape (or join) ganks easier than with other champions
-Her Q and W can destroy any possible gank initiative; also, her Q can easily zone enemies from farm
-In teamfights, she's a beast: she only needs to use her E on the ADc and be ready to pop her ulti, whose heal is absurd when full AP (it can easily tilt fights to her favour)

Quote from Jutsu

Alright, I'll give you that.

But it was an off the top of my head example. Allow me to rephrase.

Janna top lane.

Sona mid.

Op af

Unlocked nautilus today. Only have a few rift games as him under my belt, but I love him.

First game with devour and his bro: 7/6/20, really feeling out the character. Learned about all his abilities and shit, it was a clean victory.

Second game with a full party of stickpageans and devours bro, mostly gold and silver leaguers: 10/3/29 We fucking dominated so hard that game.

Third game in aram: 6/3/26 he's sort of awkward in aram, not really sure how I'll approach using him in aram in the future.

Fourth game, with a silver friend. Most of the players were silver or bronze: 6/2/30, I could've had a lot more kills if I was a last hitter at all. I gave support braum a triple kill. I had the least kills on my team, but the most gold in the game.

Nautilus is my fucking jam, build him pure tank and try to get people kills and get dragons.
The worst part about him is how insanely slow he is, especially early game in general *clearing jungle camps too*. I'm not really brave enough to rush boots either, he sort of needs the bulkiness early on. It can be really frustrating to spend all that time trudging your way towards a situation that's resolved by the time you get there, realizing all the jungle camps are cleared on this side and then trudging back. He also has frustrating mana problems that you're never really obliged to resolve, like maokai has some synergy with chalice, but Nautilus is best just building straight up tanky. Early game I'm always a bit behind, but my tankiness carries me through that.

And once team fighting starts Nautilus is an absolute fucking destroyer of worlds.
CC all day erry day.

Quote from DiPi

Janna top lane (full AP) is actually a good viable choice, since
-Full AP Janna deals more dmg than one might think about (Q and W)
-Her shield let her not only counter champions with poke (Gankplank, Pantheon, ecc. (she doesn't counter them full though)), but also to hug tower with less risks, since she can shield it
-Her passive makes her damn slippery, letting her not only poke the opponents, but also able to escape (or join) ganks easier than with other champions
-Her Q and W can destroy any possible gank initiative; also, her Q can easily zone enemies from farm
-In teamfights, she's a beast: she only needs to use her E on the ADc and be ready to pop her ulti, whose heal is absurd when full AP (it can easily tilt fights to her favour)

Janna jungle.

I stand firm that you can't just play any character any role and have it be just as good as a champion designed for that role.