The Chat Thread

Started by: Lgolos | Replies: 158,197 | Views: 12,277,685 | Sticky

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Feb 16, 2015 4:46 PM #1309783

Quote from Camila
Don't get Salty, I was joking.

Lol I'm not pissed but icwotudidthere

Nish yeah I understand what you mean.

Captainalien72
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Feb 16, 2015 4:54 PM #1309786

Quote from Salt
To be honest if your party isn't secularist then it's most likely shit (not implying that secularist=good communists are secularist too.)

I don't see how having a set of religious morals or beliefs makes a certain religious governing/political party more incompetent than a secular one.

(Other than the extreme of trying to force your beliefs/ideologies on others. But then again. even secular entities can force their ideologies on others. The communists being a good example.)

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Feb 16, 2015 5:00 PM #1309789

Quote from Captainalien72
I don't see how having a set of religious morals or beliefs makes a governing/political party more incompetent than a secular one.

(Other than the extreme of trying to force your beliefs/ideologies on others. But then again. even secular entities can force their ideologies on others. The communists being a good example.)

Traditionally, non-secular beliefs tend to be close-minded and archaic, characteristics which are already fatal enough in an already rigorously defined system.

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Feb 16, 2015 5:04 PM #1309792

As nish said this isn't always the case, but a government guided by certain religious beliefs will try to enforce the 'laws' of that belief upon others who don't follow that belief. Religion should be kept between a person and themselves or their said deity. That's probably one of the few issues really. The problem is it tends to be really invasive into ones freedoms and rights in a lot of cases. That doesn't necessarily mean it's all bad as Nish said.

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Feb 16, 2015 5:13 PM #1309794

@Raptor and Salt, yeah I feel you guys. I do agree with you guys that the main 2 issues here would be a non-secular entity being close minded and most likely trying to force it's beliefs on another entity.

I just think that it doesn't necessarily make such a party incapable of governing though. The same concern for a country's growth and prosperity, alleviation of social problems etc would surely apply to a religious party as much as it applies to a secular one.

And yeah, Scarecrow does seem slightly scarce.

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Feb 16, 2015 5:23 PM #1309801

Lol no scarecorw posted two days ago he just changed his avi and sig and I got confused lmao.

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Feb 16, 2015 5:30 PM #1309804

It is very hard to keep a religious-minded party (in power) from trying to spread it's religious talons onto the general public. Because all religion is rooted in one thing: Blind faith. Even the more tolerant religions like Buddhism and Hinduism that preach that 'All Gods are one' are still rooted in blind faith. The core of religion is this: "Hey guys, our supreme authority figure would like you to believe this. He can't prove he actually did any of this. He won't show himself. He won't be accountable. He won't solve your problems in a single stroke even though you can. He is going to hide behind metaphors like faith and free will and prayer and he'd just like you to believe it. You know, like just pretend this is all true." Thats the basis of every relgion.

So what happens is, when religious parties comes to power, they behave like they weild the same power as an authority figure. They likes to be less accountable, they like to use religion as a means of stopping people from asking questions. They expect complete 'faith' because 'faith' is a good thing, whether it is deserved or not.

Having said that, I will repeat that I don't think that the issues of religious tolerance should be higher on the list of priorities than social development, sustainability, economic nourishment or the creation of employment. It would be nice to have some secular, but it should not be the numbero uno deciding factor.

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Feb 16, 2015 5:47 PM #1309818

I managed to pass my Food Safety Manager test! I've now got two certifications under my belt.

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Feb 16, 2015 6:08 PM #1309824

Quote from Nish
It is very hard to keep a religious-minded party (in power) from trying to spread it's religious talons onto the general public. Because all religion is rooted in one thing: Blind faith. Even the more tolerant religions like Buddhism and Hinduism that preach that 'All Gods are one' are still rooted in blind faith. The core of religion is this: "Hey guys, our supreme authority figure would like you to believe this. He can't prove he actually did any of this. He won't show himself. He won't be accountable. He won't solve your problems in a single stroke even though you can. He is going to hide behind metaphors like faith and free will and prayer and he'd just like you to believe it. You know, like just pretend this is all true." Thats the basis of every relgion.

So what happens is, when religious parties comes to power, they behave like they weild the same power as an authority figure. They likes to be less accountable, they like to use religion as a means of stopping people from asking questions. They expect complete 'faith' because 'faith' is a good thing, whether it is deserved or not.

Having said that, I will repeat that I don't think that the issues of religious tolerance should be higher on the list of priorities than social development, sustainability, economic nourishment or the creation of employment. It would be nice to have some secular, but it should not be the numbero uno deciding factor.

Once again, I agree with this. In almost all cases this will happen, where the religious party will attempt to spread their beliefs.

I still want everyone concerned with the topic to consider that a religious minded party (in power) will also be concerned with the development of the country it is ruling and working to fix it's problems, just as much as a non-secular party. (This is my main point, while everyone has argued so far that the party's own beliefs might get in the way, I have agreed and acknowledged this, but it doesn't make my statement any less valid.) It's not as if the only reason a religious party wants to come into power is to become an autocratic superpower that will bring its own interests to fruition. Otherwise it would be a cult, like in the example of Jonestown, not a party.

Quote from Nish
He won't solve your problems in a single stroke even though you can.

Perhaps people's faith just works differently, depending on their social circumstances. I've seen faith and religion do a lot for people in my community, way too much, and in too many good ways for it to simply be human cause or coincidence. So I do believe that God can solve your problems.

@Salt, Yeah but I don't always see Scarecrow's posts that often. I usually actually rarely see him post.

@Azure Kite. Well done :) get Cookin' m7.

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Feb 16, 2015 7:23 PM #1309858

Quote from Imada
Your name implies some form of martial arts.

Or is it just me?

Jutsu simply means technique.

Quote from Nish
Theres a lot more to governance than secularism. Not that secularism isn't an important part of a good society, but too many middle class young people often assume that tempering the evils of religious fundamentalism is more important than the creation of jobs, economic agendas, foreign policy, development of infrastructure, political stability, financial planning for the country etc.

In India, for example, we have a party in power, the BJP, that is a little right wing. They're seen as Hindu nationalists, but they have been impeccable in creating jobs, bringing stability, building infrastructure, starting grass roots programs. The previous regime, the Indian National Congress, was highly secular, but they completely failed at any kind of development in the country and they were corrupt to the core. Too many of my friends see the existing in-power party, the BJP, as 'evil' solely because of the "if your party isn't secularist then it's most likely shit" theory.

In a democracy, in the real world, sometimes thats how it is. Would the BJP be better if they were more secular? Perhaps. In an ideal world, they would be secular. But by real world rules, secular or not, the party that solves the most problems for the country is the best party. Secularism is simply one of a thousand problems as party needs to solve.

The way I see it, any party system has the capacity to be completely corrupt. The founding fathers of America actually warned about a two party system.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

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Feb 16, 2015 10:30 PM #1309934

Hey guys, wanted to hop in and say I know I havent been around much the past few days. I havent forgotten you all again, just dealing with some intense family and financial bullshit. Things are gonna work out though <3

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Feb 16, 2015 10:45 PM #1309952

Quote from Nish
It is very hard to keep a religious-minded party (in power) from trying to spread it's religious talons onto the general public. Because all religion is rooted in one thing: Blind faith. Even the more tolerant religions like Buddhism and Hinduism that preach that 'All Gods are one' are still rooted in blind faith. The core of religion is this: "Hey guys, our supreme authority figure would like you to believe this. He can't prove he actually did any of this. He won't show himself. He won't be accountable. He won't solve your problems in a single stroke even though you can. He is going to hide behind metaphors like faith and free will and prayer and he'd just like you to believe it. You know, like just pretend this is all true." Thats the basis of every relgion.

So what happens is, when religious parties comes to power, they behave like they weild the same power as an authority figure. They likes to be less accountable, they like to use religion as a means of stopping people from asking questions. They expect complete 'faith' because 'faith' is a good thing, whether it is deserved or not.

Having said that, I will repeat that I don't think that the issues of religious tolerance should be higher on the list of priorities than social development, sustainability, economic nourishment or the creation of employment. It would be nice to have some secular, but it should not be the numbero uno deciding factor.

I'm not sure what kind of convorsation I just walked into, and I'm too lazy to go back and read the other text wall posts. But I do agree with this 100%. Religious tolerance should be at the bottom of the list IMO. Sure, it's nice and good and everything, but there's so many other problems to sort out first.

Quote from Azure Kite
I managed to pass my Food Safety Manager test! I've now got two certifications under my belt.

You workin at dat KFC?

Raptor
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Feb 16, 2015 11:21 PM #1309974

Quote from Azure Kite
I managed to pass my Food Safety Manager test! I've now got two certifications under my belt.

Congrats bro.

Quote from MiniMan
Hey guys, wanted to hop in and say I know I havent been around much the past few days. I havent forgotten you all again, just dealing with some intense family and financial bullshit. Things are gonna work out though <3

Nice to hear, would be sad if you left without a word.

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Feb 17, 2015 2:05 AM #1310042

Anyone ever notice All the new members that jointhen never log into there account after the day they join? :(

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Feb 17, 2015 3:13 AM #1310072

What was the other one Azure?