Quote from MustRemainSecret

Right now they can be used as an unpenetrable barrier by players who know what they are doing. I have even done it MANY times against other players.

Then you clearly did not read my post

Walls are not impenetrable and come at a lot of tradeoffs to use for turtling.

We have and had read every post in this thread. We wrote a LONG response addressing the 3 comments prior and decided that it was pointless to beat a dead horse. You don't get it and it doesn't matter whether you do or not - all that matters is that the devs understand and surely they will since they created the game. Will they decide to change it? Maybe, maybe not (it should be changed IOO) but we have little doubt that they will at least be able to see the problem here.

This is NOT about strategy. This is NOT about strategy. This is NOT about strategy. Get it through your skulls.

It's about the fact that due to a flaw in the game, the only possible way to take down walls is to get magikill (or 2 or 3). These are liable to die before the walls even go down (especially when there are 2 walls). Finally, third and fourth walls can be built (or more) as the second, third, etc walls are going down. This has happened to us multiple times. It seems very inappropriate for you to question us given that we are ~1750 (peak 1781) and therefore should be given some credibility as to how the game works, isn't it?

If you think it is logical in any way, shape or form that the miner wall can't be targeted, you are quite simply dull and probably moronic. But we will let God be the judge.

I suggest using magikills to help, bug or not an electric wall will do a lot of damage (i believe 2 to kill a full health wall) and if they are wall stacking its even more effective.
What Ase said is true, we used to be able to destroy walls even with people blocking so its probably a buff to the wall

Quote from MustRemainSecret

We have and had read every post in this thread. We wrote a LONG response addressing the 3 comments prior and decided that it was pointless to beat a dead horse. You don't get it and it doesn't matter whether you do or not - all that matters is that the devs understand and surely they will since they created the game. Will they decide to change it? Maybe, maybe not (it should be changed IOO) but we have little doubt that they will at least be able to see the problem here.

This is NOT about strategy. This is NOT about strategy. This is NOT about strategy. Get it through your skulls.

It's about the fact that due to a flaw in the game, the only possible way to take down walls is to get magikill (or 2 or 3). These are liable to die before the walls even go down (especially when there are 2 walls). Finally, third and fourth walls can be built (or more) as the second, third, etc walls are going down. This has happened to us multiple times. It seems very inappropriate for you to question us given that we are ~1750 (peak 1781) and therefore should be given some credibility as to how the game works, isn't it?

If you think it is logical in any way, shape or form that the miner wall can't be targeted, you are quite simply dull and probably moronic. But we will let God be the judge.

I never said it was logical that the miner wall can be shielded like so. This GAME isn't logical, just look at the units.
Jeeez.

The only issue in this game is balance, which is all about strategy, NOT LOGIC. The wall 'bug' as you so claim, is a balanced one that contributes to the depth of the game rather than detracting from it.

You can take down walls with ANY dps unit. I've held my elo around 2k for the last few months. I've played over 1000 matches of ranked, I wouldn't try to pull the elitism and elo if I were you. 1700's is newbie anyway.

Well as we said earlier, just because something has been buffed doesn't mean it's right as in this case the buff was a mistake in the first place. We can't stress enough the sheer amount of times we've had an army TWICE as powerful (a full 26 spear army + 2 swords with rage) and literally have no way whatsoever of even getting past ONE wall, simple because the opponent exploited this flaw (many times). This is just not right and needs to change.

We have lost many games where we got past the walls or there were no walls at all or we lost because opponent beat us before we could even attack therefore proving this is not OP. This is not a change to one specific empire and every empire is equally affected so what it does it evolve strategies (always a good thing) and definitely not OP.

Lmao you know how many times we've crushed 1800-1900's and even would be crushing 2k if they didn't exploit this flaw (they literally only win because they know we can't get past even 1 wall, and they exploit this).

1780 is not newbie, sorry. 1300's is newbie. 1400's is probably an average player. Hate to burst your bubble but 1780 is quite above average - I would guess easily in the top 5% of all players.

Your comment on depth is hilarious. All this bug does is teach players to turtle and you are saying it makes the game deeper! HAHAHA

The reality is, allowing players to target the walls makes the game SO much deeper as players must ACTIVELY WORK TO DEFEND THEIR STATUE, which is THE POINT OF THE GAME.

What the hell are you buying MELEE units for to counter a wall?

No wonder you keep losing.
Lol, 1400 average? Top 5% is probably top 100 list - which has its lowest player above 2k elo.

Buy ranged units to dps that wall down like any sensible player with higher elo than you.


I genuinely don't know how you can think buying MELEE units against splash damage and a wall would be a good idea. I'd compare that to having a knife and getting attacked and stabbing yourself. You are literally helping your opponent - no wonder you die.

Nerfing walls is literally a change to one specific empire, Order, in every way possible.

Why the hell would you buy MELEE units that have to group up and get close together against splash damage that will be most effective the closer together your army is?

Just a question.

If other people can naturally accept this whole wall thingy going on for almost 2 years now, why can't you? The higher up you go in the rankings, the more you need to change your strategy. The higher you go, the more you need to adapt to other people's strategy.

Spearton rushing and massing are mostly same and consistent; no matter how you go at it, you get a bunch of speartons and use them to destroy the statue. It's very, very easy to counter. It's also really predictable. Even without the wall bug as it is right now, you still won't be able to win; we've had spearton massers back even before Oct '12. They don't work, because magikills, swords with rage, speartons with shield bash, 3 CA's, unbuggy walls, bunch of miners, statue with resilience, are enough to stop a rush. Splash damage are what counters a mass of a unit. A spearton's training time is 20; 12 of them makes 4 minutes. 4 WHOLE minutes, the enemy is free to do anything he wants. Not to mention free middle tower (which gives 20 gold after a few seconds). He can dedicate a minute on just boosting his economy and you won't even know it, because you're not able to scout. He also wont't be just be watching you mass your army, he'll harass you whenever possible, and you'll need to defend. Probably you'd make a few castle archers, in which you'll again be behind in economy. If he does it right he might don't even need to resort to turtling; he can just kill you there and then.

So basically, spearton massing is just a bad strategy. If you want to get higher up then where you are now, it's best that you adapt.

DERPDY DERP WON'T WORK IN HIGH LEVELS DERPY DERPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

This has nothing to do with strategy. This has nothing to do with strategy. This has nothing to do with strategy.

As mentioned earlier, no point in beating a dead horse - hopefully devs will make the right choice and fix this flaw and improve the game.

This has everything to do with strategy as it has everything to do with game balance when making or not making this change.
When will you understand that?

Lol this whole thread is the biggest QQ i've seen in a while.

"I CANT BEAT WALLS WITH SPEAR MASS SO I'M GONNA GO ON THE FORUMS AND SPAM IN ALL CAPS THAT THEY SHOULD BE NERFED HKASJDFLASDNJK"

Quote from IHATETHISNAME

Lol this whole thread is the biggest QQ i've seen in a while.

"I CANT BEAT WALLS WITH SPEAR MASS SO I'M GONNA GO ON THE FORUMS AND SPAM IN ALL CAPS THAT THEY SHOULD BE NERFED HKASJDFLASDNJK"

I was going to make a thread about nerfing CA so we can miner mas statue rush again.

I can easily get past the wall if I want to. This has nothing to do with that. 5 people complaining about something that should be fixed is too small a sample size to mean anything. Whenever there is a great advancement, invention, discovery in life, a bunch of people always go against it. It's literally the nature of mediocre minds to do so. Do you want to be one of those types?

I'm a 1780, this has nothing to do with NOT knowing how to get past the wall, although it still is a big issue even using other methods. You claim to be more knowledgeable about this game than I yet you think a 1780 doesn't know there are ways around this bug?

This isn't complaining about not being able to "use 'my' strategy". This is not "MY" strategy, it's about improving the game.

This will BETTER balance the game as has already been explained in previous posts (which you have not read).

When you were in school did you complain to the teacher when you got a bad grade, when you clearly hadn't studied or had any idea how to do what was required on the test? When other students got great grades you never asked yourself... hmm, maybe, just maybe I'M doing something wrong?

Do you think I give a damn about this game, really? I play it for an hour a day for some enjoyment - there are MILLIONS of games. I posted here originally because it made absolutely no sense to me - whatsoever - that we couldn't target the miner wall to attack. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

The miner BUILDS the wall in the first place, and yet 26 spears will run BACKWARDS to ONE giant with no way to attack the wall. This allows players to exploit the game (as you will see in the replay below), knowing that they are invincible. Should a player EVER be invincible in a game? There is a difference between OUTMATCHED, and INVINCIBLE. A 2000 vs a 1250 is OUTMATCHED. A 1500 who exploits this vs. a 1780 is INVINCIBLE (in fact, I frequently lose to very weak players (compared to me) who simply exploit this).

But... but... but YOU'RE a weak player... because.. because you... you... don't get a MAGIKILL! *sticks out tongue*

lmfao... grow up

Devs, please change this: www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay7963002&version=2.22

Explain how nerfing the wall to fix this so called 'bug' will improve game balance. I can just about infer you think it should be 'patched' because it is not intuitive, but that's hardly enough reason by itself. The vast majority of this community have, and continue to, for the last two years been saying the wall mechanics are good because of how they make turtling work. Gameplay matters a damn lot more than game intuition.

You are now contradicting yourself. The wall is never invincible, it can only be shielded. There is a VERY important difference between those two things. You yourself have admitted there are ways around this mechanic, so that paragraph about it being 'INVINCIBLE' is you showing yourself to be a hypocrite.

Make up your mind, is this op or is it not? - because you're literally saying both at the same time.

That replay only shows the person on the left attacking every unit but the wall they wanted to. They should have used A-left click to target the wall and take that down - as well as buying decent units instead of a spear mass. They lost because of the decisions they made and the opponent might even have won that without using the walls.

I was CONSTANTLY clicking on the wall (actually, if you click ON the wall, units just run forward indefinitely on the wall while being attacked) I was clicking directly in front of wall for units to attack. This doesn't work (I already knew it wouldn't, it was just to illustrate the problem here), and therefore units automatically ran backwards and the vastly more powerful army was wiped out without any way to move forward.

I'm sure 2k+ can look at this and deduce ways to penetrate the walls - but the fact is it would still be very difficult. I have already mentioned in this thread that I, myself, use this tactic while building an army and the opponent always has trouble unless they attack early enough. In DM, it's very hard to get through even for top-ranked players given that speartons can simply be cycled so albows, archers, even mages can be rendered useless.

The walls serve 2 purposes:

1) Tank damage
2) Block units from directly running into opposing base

The walls themselves have about the health of one spearton (maybe a bar or 2 less) so 2 walls is about 2 spears AND they are completely blocking entry into the base.

With this bug, the main purpose of the walls actually becomes to significantly increase turtling and not their main purposes, outlined above. It is completely illogical and renders the walls significantly more powerful than they should be.

Now, it looks like we are going in circles because you keep saying it will become OP... OP applies to changes to a specific empire not a mechanical game change.

This will not be OP for order at all... why? Simple (and for someone trying to look like they are better than me at the game, you'd think you would already know this) there are a number of easy counters to order massers - sword stacking (even without rage!), using giants knockback to knock spears off tower, using spear knockback to knock spears off tower, magikill (as usual), 3 castle archers, shinobi, actually basically any order unit can counter massers when done properly.

I haven't played enough of elemental but I know chaos easily can counter order masses as well.

One more key point: the most important thing to remember is that massers are ALL IN (they don't attack your units, they attack your statue) - so given that you can defend this (which is actually very easy even with targetable walls) - you still have all of your units and win the game. If you really think it is OP to have targetable walls, you have to clearly explain why, not just say it.

Finally, this makes the game significantly more deep. Instead of the incredibly easy turtling we can do now, we will have to actually pay a lot of attention to defending our base given that we can't simply turtle with a mage behind like we can now. It opens a new dimension to the game that previously didn't exist.

And if you REALLY, REALLY still think this will be OP, unbalanced whatever you want to call it - there is a simple solution to add a couple of more bars of health to the walls.