Quote from mysterybat

but charrog itself is already very good enough, and it is very tanky. The burn ability of charrog also allows it to deal with archer mass really well. So upgrading charrog does not make sense at all

I was suggesting implementing hp upgrades as a nerf, like the scorplings and treatures received.

Spears don't do well against albowtross and you don't see freakin threads about that. Charrogs should not be able to tank albowtross. Instead, give eles some kind of balanced air game. Airs ares weak, attack speed is slow, and cost a lot of gold for a 20 second queue. Their combination is expensive and doesn't grant good dps either. That's the issue. It's not bloody charrogs.

Quote from PineappleReturnz

You can't properly respond to posts without having read them.

The Charrog armor upgrade we are suggesting 2-3 bars only for 300|100 to handle wing/albow mass; however, with improvement to Cycloid, this will not be necessary (right now fire counters air better than Cycloid but Charrog is too weak to tank in late game).

the problem of elemental is weak air force, not ground force(tree or charrogs)

It does not make sense to buff the unit that is not needed, and ignore the real problem

Increasing health of charrog just means "make the wrong part more wrong"

Besides, if an elemental player tries to use bloody charrogs to deal with wings, he is definitely a bad player

Quote from mysterybat

the problem of elemental is weak air force, not ground force(tree or charrogs)

It does not make sense to buff the unit that is not needed, and ignore the real problem

Increasing health of charrog just means "make the wrong part more wrong"

Besides, if an elemental player tries to use bloody charrogs to deal with wings, he is definitely a bad player

WE AGREE.

The clear solution is Cycloid buff.

***

Otherwise, the only proper counter is fire;

However, Charrog cannot tank 6+ wings in late game. Period.

EDIT: I have already said, Charrog is great.

(why do you think I used to Charrog rush? lol-> (I even beat you; "worst build I have ever seen" XD)).

Inferno and Cycloid are both worse than either of their base units alone, in many cases.

Hmm..I think ele is stronk early and nub in late because of space problems..That hasn't been brought up before


but yea airs are weak aff and I hate how they stop shooting when you press attk commands

lol don't just blindly "buff cycloids." I'd rather see a change in how they work and maybe some mechanics different for airs all around...

If cycloids didn't have to manage dps by themselves and airs worked, cycloids would NOT need such a buff.

Air mechanics currently aren't just weak, they're really annoying to have to play with. I'm with Wyz on this one, change the air mechanics first.

Now what sort of mechanics on an Air unit would make for more interactive play?
I'm thinking more reliable firing and no derp around time between air recasts but shielding as an option for counterplay by placing a unit 'above' the other unit, as opposed to shielding against archers by placing your tank in front of your archer.

If the air just shot forward like normal ranged troops? and give them kiting ._.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

If the air just shot forward like normal ranged troops? and give them kiting ._.

That would take an entirely new attack animation.

Giving airs kiting but giving them counter play in the form of vertical shielding should make both players able to interact more in the matchup.

Quote from PineappleReturnz

WE AGREE.

The clear solution is Cycloid buff.

***

Otherwise, the only proper counter is fire;

However, Charrog cannot tank 6+ wings in late game. Period.

EDIT: I have already said, Charrog is great.

(why do you think I used to Charrog rush? lol-> (I even beat you; "worst build I have ever seen" XD)).

Inferno and Cycloid are both worse than either of their base units alone, in many cases.

From what i have seen, you just suck to counter wings and albows, then you run here to ask for buff

"I even beat you", if you called yourself lose 10 games and then won 1 game as "beat others" , you can stick to your own way.

But considering the high cost of cycloid (750 gold + 100mana, and 200 gold +100 mana for upgrade), also 1 cycloid cannot deal with 2 wings without upgrade. I do agree cycloid does not have its power deserved

Again, Inferno is already good
It seems you are just looking for a pure buff instead of looking for what is truly needed.

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In my part, the three units that have problems : trees, cycloids and airs

1) Trees should not spawn disposable units. It does not only create lag , but also make ele unstoppable in dm in short maps.
2) Cycloids should be able to win 1v2 against wings considering its high cost and long upgrade time.
3) Air should not cost 20 seconds to queue, lower dps and higher queue time, it makes fires just a better choice.

Myst how do you think trees could be changed then?

I agree disposable units aren't a good idea but I don't see any alternative options for how a tree would work.

The best way to counter wings in general is get chaos to retreat to the base... for once actually use the blind gate at the very edge of the castle, and have a water and fire sitting there preparing to blast. Or just hit a lucky blast in general, that always works. Half the time.

Btw Pines i'm sure myst beat you up. Now use those strats and stop sucking.

Anyways, Myst I agree that the tree could possibly take the roles of the giants because its nice and slow. Make it cost a LOT more gold, pop, give it growth upgrades, then the 3 scorps per tree wouldn't be that big of a deal... if.. lets say its 9 pop? Personally I would like to see a fully upgraded giant vs a fully upgraded tree. Would be epic af.

Quote from AsePlayer

The best way to counter wings in general is get chaos to retreat to the base... for once actually use the blind gate at the very edge of the castle, and have a water and fire sitting there preparing to blast. Or just hit a lucky blast in general, that always works. Half the time.

Btw Pines i'm sure myst beat you up. Now use those strats and stop sucking.

Anyways, Myst I agree that the tree could possibly take the roles of the giants because its nice and slow. Make it cost a LOT more gold, pop, give it growth upgrades, then the 3 scorps per tree wouldn't be that big of a deal... if.. lets say its 9 pop? Personally I would like to see a fully upgraded giant vs a fully upgraded tree. Would be epic af.

still blind gate is my greatest concern. I really hope it can be useful and take a better role.

So far I don't really see many problems for ele in classic. Except the EvC part. OvE or EvO is quite balanced already in my mind.
DM the whole system is just broken . Take a look on leaderboard and see the top 10 players are all membership players, just kinda prove order sucks in dm.

And if tree is really made as the late game units, to make it simple, I think scoripons are no longer needed, just make tree as a single unit , move slowly with high attack power like giants will be ok
But it is viable to keep the scorpions feature, but in late game wise, scorpions should have at least 3x health.

how about make eles like order and chaos