It's a big leap to just say the subconscious retains memories of people, and these memories of people are what gives us our education. What about things learned independently? I don't know the man who made the Dewey Decimal System, but I still understand the system because I chose to study it and looked through the writings of others. How does me not knowing who he is, or my teachers of the English language, affect my understanding of this system? Or what about math? I learned the formulas partially through teachers, partially through writings. Math is all formulas; even if I can't remember who taught the formulas, why would I just forget the formulas, some of which feed into the formulas I self-studied?

If everyone is just a blur that has no meaning to me, fine. If they're just not there, fine. But I can't accept that I only know what I know because they're associated with people, because in my eyes they're not, and you've provided no empirical evidence to support the claim.

Wait did you actually think that my entire point was that if you didn't know fucking Charles Babbage you wouldn't be able to use a computer?

You could have learned through the writing of others, but your teachers still taught you as a child didn't they? Unless you are some sort of miracle child who was born knowing everything.

As far as empirical evidence goes, a simple google search yielded this:



As you can see, the things that we learn are totally useless unless the memory retaining parts work together. See Explicit Memory and Implicit memory. Just because you can't recall it off the top of your head, it doesn't mean that removing those memories will still leave you with the ability to function unless you ARE a miracle child who was born knowing everything.


Again, you're also skimming over the massive fact that I said even IF that wasn't Envoy's point, there are still huge gaping flaws in the Mind Wipe option which you didn't address. You're saying you'd take a gamble on potentially being a child molester or an animal beater.

The image you provided shows how memory works, not that removal of certain parts of memory removes your capability of handling anything. Indeed, it seems to further prove my point that forgetting people doesn't influence your function as a person meaning your need to relearn things is rather limited. Recent skills may be affected, but long term skills will very likely be retained due to embedding in your long term memory, under Implicit's "Procedural" section.

Onto your point about the chance's of one becoming a terrible person, there's also a chance you won't end up such. The only guarantee is a better chance at a longer life than if you don't get the surgery. Maybe's exist both ways. Maybe I'll turn into a pedophile for some reason. I'd have to ask what sort of new stimuli I'd come in contact with that would cause such an interest in me, but I won't deny the potential is there. Maybe I'll become a rapist and murderer; again, I can't help but wonder what would lead to this, but I won't deny the potential. But do consider this:

Maybe if I know I have a short time to live, I live without any inhibitions. I know I'm kicking the bucket; why not go out in a blaze of glory? What do I have to fear? Prison would provide only a bit of a deterrent, all things considered. There's potential for terrible things to happen either way; just because I choose to live doesn't make me a cretin because of some chance of becoming a worse person than I am now.

Lets not get into the 'memory' part of it for now. You clearly need step-by-step proof and I don't care about this argument enough to get it for you, even though I could dig it out if I wanted. My point was that the memory of learning is embedded with the memory of the person, because what you learn in implicit or explicit memory is that EVENTS that happened, which include the people in it. I would recommend "Studies of Cerebral Function in Learning" by Karl Lashley and ANY book on the Atkinson–Shiffrin memory model to credibilize my claim. Preferably something written by Richard Shiffrin himself. But if you want explicit spoon-fed proof from me, it isn't coming forth because it genuinely is like explaining evaporation to someone who insists that water vapour isn't actually water. I'd rather get to what we can both agree is the actual debate.

Since we concede that is it more important to address Envoy's intention, I'll get to that.

Quote from Azure Kite

Onto your point about the chance's of one becoming a terrible person, there's also a chance you won't end up such. The only guarantee is a better chance at a longer life than if you don't get the surgery. Maybe's exist both ways. Maybe I'll turn into a pedophile for some reason. I'd have to ask what sort of new stimuli I'd come in contact with that would cause such an interest in me, but I won't deny the potential is there. Maybe I'll become a rapist and murderer; again, I can't help but wonder what would lead to this, but I won't deny the potential.

When asked to choose between even a 1% chance of becoming someone who might rape one's own child (or torture his family) or death, I don't see how anyone who isn't complete filth would choose the former.

Quote from Azure Kite

But do consider this:

Maybe if I know I have a short time to live, I live without any inhibitions. I know I'm kicking the bucket; why not go out in a blaze of glory? What do I have to fear? Prison would provide only a bit of a deterrent, all things considered. There's potential for terrible things to happen either way; just because I choose to live doesn't make me a cretin because of some chance of becoming a worse person than I am now.

Incorrect. This is the same bullshit argument that religious people make that unless there was consequences with some supreme dictator in the sky, we would all live lives of murder and decadence. You're also forgetting that you are in control of who you are NOW. You have no control after the mindwipe. Unless you're a child molester, there is no way you will molest children even if you know you're going to die. If a man is the kind of guy who would go about doing horrible things to people just because there are no personal consequences, then he is a cretin regardless of whether he chooses the mindwipe or not.

So no, there isn't potentially for equally terrible things. In the former situation, NO ONE would do something stupid and end up in prison for the remaining 3 years of their lives. It is extremely stupid to even suggest that and I'm hoping thats not what you meant. When you say "Prison would provide only a bit of a deterrent" it is rather inaccurate because prison is a WAAYYY bigger deterrent to someone who has only 3 years to live than to anyone else.

Quote from Nish

If anyone here would rather gamble on being someone turned on by Child porn (no matter how slim the chances are, there is STILL a chance of it happening), rather than dying in 3 years, then you are an absolute cretin.

On the other hand, there's a very real chance you could be turned into a wonderful person. Someone who saves lives, or makes the world a better place (no matter how slim the chances are there's STILL a chance of it happening). If you'd rather let all those people die or leave the world without whatever good you have gave it, you are an absolute cretin :rolleyes:

Ok but really though, what's with telling people they're X insulting word of they disagree with you? I see this a lot mang. That doesn't help your argument at all, it just discourages discussion and looks immature :p

See, I wasn't going to get into this until I got everything I said quoted and told why I was wrong.

Nish, if you're going to bring fact into this, let me follow suit.

Your personality, your likes, your dislikes, your memories of everyone you know, etc. I.e. You will be a completely different person at the end of it.

Alright, so I'm getting retrograde amnesia and my personality is getting altered. Both of these things have happened to people before, you're just getting both at once. Sure, I might be a little bit of an asswhipe when all is said and done. You might think taking the chance is reckless, but I think not trying to live is irresponsible. Neither of those things say you'll lose all your skills or you'll become illiterate or anything along those lines. You'd still be able to function, and because that's not something that was taken out of the original post, I'm assuming you retain that. Especially because that'd be the most need to know thing in there.

So I can do things.

But I still have no idea who the hell I am.

Now let's go more facts. Right now, what do you have on you? I'd bet you have at least your phone and wallet. Wallet probably contains your driver's license. Oh sweet! That has your full name on it! And where you live! How about your phone? Is it locked? We'll get to that in a minute. If not, you probably have lots of messages to read to get a general idea of at least who knows you and who could most likely tell you who you are the best. Especially if someone's name was Mom or Dad.

If it'd locked, I bet you could take it to a phone company and get your lock screen password changed. Now you get to see those messages!

Bonus question! Do you have a business card? If so, now you also know where you work! You can call them and get things! What's this? Your car's impounded because apparently you weren't at home when you were taken to not die? Good thing you get notified about that sort of thing! Now you can call a cab and get your car, drive home and call your parents to find out who you are!

Now let's take it another step with some guesses. If you have to do this right now, then chances are there are reasons for this. Now, unless this mysterious operation is a dude stabbing you in the skull, you're probably going to be taken somewhere with some good medical equipment on the brink of being shut down, causing the desperation. Do you think this is happening in some alley somewhere? People are going to be around. And also, you're cured. So you're some random doctor dude, on the brink of getting shut down and you save a guy with what was formally and incurable disease. You don't think maybe this is going to be on the news? That an astounding zero people you know will see that? They're going to find out.

And one more thing about your friends not knowing.

You have brain cancer. You never told anyone that? Really? They're already concerned about you. If not, if you're going to the doctor with a serious enough issue to get your brain scanned, you personally know something's up. Didn't ask for a day off or anything? Never mentioned to anyone you weren't feeling well and had to go see the doctor?

Sounds a hell of a lot like you're already pretty anti-social, you might just need a new personality.

EDIT: And about becoming some wicked person, I'm already perfectly capable of getting into an accident and killing a mother and her baby girl. Everything you do has a risk for tragedy.

Quote from Devour

On the other hand, there's a very real chance you could be turned into a wonderful person. Someone who saves lives, or makes the world a better place (no matter how slim the chances are there's STILL a chance of it happening). If you'd rather let all those people die or leave the world without whatever good you have gave it, you are an absolute cretin :rolleyes:

Ok but really though, what's with telling people they're X insulting word of they disagree with you? I see this a lot mang. That doesn't help your argument at all, it just discourages discussion and looks immature :p

Thats the whole point. You have control of who you are NOW. So if you're a person who can save lives, you can do it NOW in the next 3 years.

You're saying you'd willingly gamble on being a child molester solely because of an equal chance that you could be a good guy too. I'm saying thats despicable. I also don't get what it is with 'being nice' to 'help my argument'. I'm standing by my case. I don't need support from people saying "Wow Nish is really mature" for something so obviously bullshit as NOT wanting to molest children. I can't lie about it.

I'll make it simpler. Lets say you roll a six sided dice, yeah? If its 1 = You end up being a good writer. 2 = You're a mean guy who no one likes. 3 = You're a fantastic doctor who wants to save children around the world. 4= You're pretty much the same. 5= You're a really good sportsman. 6 = You enjoy, plan and relish torturing and raping children to death. You also have another option. Refrain from rolling the dice.

My point is, the argument that "All those children will be condemned to death unless I become a doctor" is pointless because THAT NEW person was never going to be in the world anyway if not for the mindwipe. Nor is this new child molester. If anyone actually tells me that they would take even a remote shot that they would end up enjoying murdering children because omgdeathin3yrsisscary or that "I'm taking a gamble on raping my niece (and other children) to death because there is also a chance that I could be a doctor who saves lives", then I don't think I need to nice about it to anyone, and I certainly don't see why I need to come across as being mature to someone like that.

Quote from Crank

See, I wasn't going to get into this until I got everything I said quoted and told why I was wrong.

Nish, if you're going to bring fact into this, let me follow suit.



Alright, so I'm getting retrograde amnesia and my personality is getting altered. Both of these things have happened to people before, you're just getting both at once. Sure, I might be a little bit of an asswhipe when all is said and done. You might think taking the chance is reckless, but I think not trying to live is irresponsible. Neither of those things say you'll lose all your skills or you'll become illiterate or anything along those lines. You'd still be able to function, and because that's not something that was taken out of the original post, I'm assuming you retain that. Especially because that'd be the most need to know thing in there.

So I can do things.

But I still have no idea who the hell I am.

Now let's go more facts. Right now, what do you have on you? I'd bet you have at least your phone and wallet. Wallet probably contains your driver's license. Oh sweet! That has your full name on it! And where you live! How about your phone? Is it locked? We'll get to that in a minute. If not, you probably have lots of messages to read to get a general idea of at least who knows you and who could most likely tell you who you are the best. Especially if someone's name was Mom or Dad.

If it'd locked, I bet you could take it to a phone company and get your lock screen password changed. Now you get to see those messages!

Bonus question! Do you have a business card? If so, now you also know where you work! You can call them and get things! What's this? Your car's impounded because apparently you weren't at home when you were taken to not die? Good thing you get notified about that sort of thing! Now you can call a cab and get your car, drive home and call your parents to find out who you are!

Now let's take it another step with some guesses. If you have to do this right now, then chances are there are reasons for this. Now, unless this mysterious operation is a dude stabbing you in the skull, you're probably going to be taken somewhere with some good medical equipment on the brink of being shut down, causing the desperation. Do you think this is happening in some alley somewhere? People are going to be around. And also, you're cured. So you're some random doctor dude, on the brink of getting shut down and you save a guy with what was formally and incurable disease. You don't think maybe this is going to be on the news? That an astounding zero people you know will see that? They're going to find out.

And one more thing about your friends not knowing.

You have brain cancer. You never told anyone that? Really? They're already concerned about you. If not, if you're going to the doctor with a serious enough issue to get your brain scanned, you personally know something's up. Didn't ask for a day off or anything? Never mentioned to anyone you weren't feeling well and had to go see the doctor?

Sounds a hell of a lot like you're already pretty anti-social, you might just need a new personality.

EDIT: And about becoming some wicked person, I'm already perfectly capable of getting into an accident and killing a mother and her baby girl. Everything you do has a risk for tragedy.

a) This is not retrograde amnesia or just personality getting altered. This is a new scientific procedure called mindwipe where you get a piece of your brain removed. So comparing that to existing cases may not yield us the right answers.

b) When you go into surgery, you do not have your phone or your wallet, but yeah I'm sure you'd get it. It is also unclear whether you are even aware that you've had a mindwipe or not.

c) I am only anti-social when people say incredibly stupid things. Or when people tell me I shouldn't be an asshole to be people who say incredibly stupid things.

d) Your entire post is about deductively finding out your identity and almost nothing about how to solve the problem of the new personality. You've read your messages, you know who your parents are. But so what? Just because you KNOW they are your parents, it doesn't mean you have an emotional connection with them. You've forgotten all the times you played with them, or laughed with them, or cried in their arms, and were fed by them. You've forgotten that first time your father carried you on the beach. The first time you made your mother laugh till her sides hurt. They're just two random people with labels that you must now pretend to love.

e) Yes you have a chance of killing a mother and child in an accident. You can do that even after the mindwipe. BUT the mindwipe can alter your personality to the point where you ENJOY watching children killed. Surely you don't now. It can make you a person who likes Child pornography. It can make you a person who likes making animals suffer. It can make you a person who enjoys betraying everyone you love. Comparing any of those things to an accident and saying 'either way something could happen' is asinine. The mindwipe is actively under your control.

Edit: Also regarding the 'friends not knowing part', I think you'll find I clearly said your friends don't know that you had the Mindwipe procedure and not that they didn't know you have brain cancer. They CAN'T know about mindwipe because even YOU didn't know about it before you chose to get it. It was a last minute, take-it-right-now-or-its-gone procedure.

I'm curious as to why you keep bringing up this chance of becoming an evil person, when the chances of being anything are too small to calculate, especially since it has to be a learned behavior since there's nothing left of who you were. You learn to be someone else; where are people learning to become child molesters or murderers?

Quote from Azure Kite

I'm curious as to why you keep bringing up this chance of becoming an evil person, when the chances of being anything are too small to calculate, especially since it has to be a learned behavior since there's nothing left of who you were. You learn to be someone else; where are people learning to become child molesters or murderers?

No it says clearly that is alters your personality and your likes and dislikes. So there is a minuscule, teeny weeny chance. After your surgery, the new you can look at a child and say "wow that turns me on". I'm not saying you're wrong to take the mindwipe. I'm saying I personally can't stomach the choice of anyone taking even that teeny weeny chance because I would rather die.

Quote from Nish

No it says clearly that is alters your personality and your likes and dislikes. So there is a minuscule, teeny weeny chance. After your surgery, the new you can look at a child and say "wow that turns me on". I'm not saying you're wrong to take the mindwipe. I'm saying I personally can't stomach the choice of anyone taking even that teeny weeny chance because I would rather die.

This is where the main disconnect between us seems to be. You get a new personality, yes, that's apparent. You're a blank slate. but how do you go from a blank slate to "Oh, this thing just randomly turns me on. This is a thing for me now." No, I see it as you have to go through life again, building yourself back up. Maybe if you're looking at porn and accidentally find child porn, you may develop that form of interest. That's more realistic than looking at something and saying "Now I think I'll go find and rape children, then kill them, because that's who I am now." That isn't a chance, that's pretty much an impossibility.

Quote from Nish

Thats the whole point. You have control of who you are NOW. So if you're a person who can save lives, you can do it NOW in the next 3 years.

You're saying you'd willingly gamble on being a child molester solely because of an equal chance that you could be a good guy too. I'm saying thats despicable. I also don't get what it is with 'being nice' to 'help my argument'. I'm standing by my case. I don't need support from people saying "Wow Nish is really mature" for something so obviously bullshit as NOT wanting to molest children. I can't lie about it.

I'll make it simpler. Lets say you roll a six sided dice, yeah? If its 1 = You end up being a good writer. 2 = You're a mean guy who no one likes. 3 = You're a fantastic doctor who wants to save children around the world. 4= You're pretty much the same. 5= You're a really good sportsman. 6 = You enjoy, plan and relish torturing and raping children to death. You also have another option. Refrain from rolling the dice.

My point is, the argument that "All those children will be condemned to death unless I become a doctor" is pointless because THAT NEW person was never going to be in the world anyway if not for the mindwipe. Nor is this new child molester. If anyone actually tells me that they would take even a remote shot that they would end up enjoying murdering children because omgdeathin3yrsisscary or that "I'm taking a gamble on raping my niece (and other children) to death because there is also a chance that I could be a doctor who saves lives", then I don't think I need to nice about it to anyone, and I certainly don't see why I need to come across as being mature to someone like that.

See, the flaw here is that it's not a 6 sided dice. Think of it more like you'd be rolling a handful of 20-sided dice. Child molesters like what you're describing would be as if you rolled the dice and the results read eight different dice all showing 1s. People who change the whole world for the better would be like rolling 8 20s. But every number in between, you'd just be an average guy.
I'm not saying I would or wouldn't take this mind wipe, I still haven't really decided because it's a hell of a question. But with death on the line, not taking the mind wipe because of a million-to-one odds chance of becoming a bad person isn't worth being called despicable or a cretin. It's just someone who doesn't want to die.

Quote from Azure Kite

This is where the main disconnect between us seems to be. You get a new personality, yes, that's apparent. You're a blank slate. but how do you go from a blank slate to "Oh, this thing just randomly turns me on. This is a thing for me now." No, I see it as you have to go through life again, building yourself back up. Maybe if you're looking at porn and accidentally find child porn, you may develop that form of interest. That's more realistic than looking at something and saying "Now I think I'll go find and rape children, then kill them, because that's who I am now." That isn't a chance, that's pretty much an impossibility.

Oh no. You're again refusing to acknowledge the original post where it says its alters your likes and dislikes. All that needs to happen is you look at a child in real life and say "wow these little things turn me on more than the adults ones". You don't need to see a naked child. Pedophiles are not necessarily attraced to naked children. Apparently it is to do with their size, softness, suppleness, helplessness, whatever it may be according to written account by forensic writers AND pedophiles themselves. So you don't need to look at porn. You just need to look at a child. If your "LIKES" in your brain during the mindwipe has now gone from "Women" or "Men" to "Child", thats all you need. It is also now completely unpredictable now how much you know or don't know about society and social conditioning. Even if we say that you're not a drooling vegetable (which you will be, but I'll get past is) we still don't know socially mature you are to put it past you.

EDIT:

Quote from Devour

See, the flaw here is that it's not a 6 sided dice. Think of it more like you'd be rolling a handful of 20-sided dice. Child molesters like what you're describing would be as if you rolled the dice and the results read eight different dice all showing 1s. People who change the whole world for the better would be like rolling 8 20s. But every number in between, you'd just be an average guy.
I'm not saying I would or wouldn't take this mind wipe, I still haven't really decided because it's a hell of a question. But with death on the line, not taking the mind wipe because of a million-to-one odds chance of becoming a bad person isn't worth being called despicable or a cretin. It's just someone who doesn't want to die.

Yeah of course, thats why I've been saying from the beginning that the chances are small. I can only express my personal opinion that even a 0.001% chance of it happening is disgusting enough for me to not take it, and that I don't understand how anyone who values a life of dignity can take that chance. Sometimes, people DO win the lottery. Would anyone play a million-to-one lottery if the winner won 5 million dollars, but ONE unfortunately loser became a guy who enjoys bestiality with puppies? Sure, a lot of people would play it because the chances of being that loser are so incredibly slim. But please don't ask me not to be completely disgusted by it, mang.

Quote from Nish

Oh no. You're again refusing to acknowledge the original post where it says its alters your likes and dislikes. All that needs to happen is you look at a child in real life and say "wow these little things turn me on more than the adults ones". You don't need to see a naked child. Pedophiles are not necessarily attraced to naked children. Apparently it is to do with their size, softness, suppleness, helplessness, whatever it may be according to written account by forensic writers AND pedophiles themselves. So you don't need to look at porn. You just need to look at a child. If your "LIKES" in your brain during the mindwipe has now gone from "Women" or "Men" to "Child", thats all you need. It is also now completely unpredictable now how much you know or don't know about society and social conditioning. Even if we say that you're not a drooling vegetable (which you will be, but I'll get past is) we still don't know socially mature you are to put it past you.



Yeah of course, thats why I've been saying from the beginning that the chances are small. I can only express my personal opinion that even a 0.001% chance of it happening is disgusting enough for me to not take it, and that I don't understand how anyone who values a life of dignity can take that chance. Sometimes, people DO win the lottery. Would anyone play a million-to-one lottery if the winner won 5 million dollars, but ONE unfortunately loser became a guy who enjoys bestiality with puppies? Sure, a lot of people would play it because the chances of being that loser are so incredibly slim. But please don't ask me not to be completely disgusted by it, mang.

I'm not ignoring the removal of likes and dislikes, I'm arguing that getting a sexual attraction just because you saw a child doesn't sound rational in any way. Current pedophiles and forensic writers work off of known scenarios, and these attractions likely earlier in life, not just suddenly developed. You've also contradicted yourself by bringing up current pedophile's conditions. Remember this:

Quote from Nish

a) This is not retrograde amnesia or just personality getting altered. This is a new scientific procedure called mindwipe where you get a piece of your brain removed. So comparing that to existing cases may not yield us the right answers.

Same situation. We don't know exactly how you'll be affected, and trying to use real world situations as backing up does not yield right answers.

Quote from Nish

Yeah of course, thats why I've been saying from the beginning that the chances are small. I can only express my personal opinion that even a 0.001% chance of it happening is disgusting enough for me to not take it, and that I don't understand how anyone who values a life of dignity can take that chance. Sometimes, people DO win the lottery. Would anyone play a million-to-one lottery if the winner won 5 million dollars, but ONE unfortunately loser became a guy who enjoys bestiality with puppies? Sure, a lot of people would play it because the chances of being that loser are so incredibly slim. But please don't ask me not to be completely disgusted by it, mang.

Is that a fair comparison? For this scenario, it's more like being shown a lottery ticket by a guy with a syringe needle to your throat, saying "you can enter this lottery to receive a random amount of money from a few bucks to a few thousand dollars, with a 1 in a million chance of being on the extremely good or horrible person.But if you don't enter it I'll poison you and you'll die in 3 years."
Like, I totally get and respect your point of view. In all likelihood though, nothing extreme would happen and that person being put on the spot shouldn't be expected to be responsible for microscopic odds of something going horribly wrong. People don't want to die, and they may never get another chance to be able to experience life. Dying is a huge deal, especially for people 14-20 years old whose lives are only just about to begin. I don't think wanting to live is despicable, I would call them victims of being put into such a horrible situation in the first place.

Quote from Azure Kite

I'm not ignoring the removal of likes and dislikes, I'm arguing that getting a sexual attraction just because you saw a child doesn't sound rational in any way. Current pedophiles and forensic writers work off of known scenarios, and these attractions likely earlier in life, not just suddenly developed. You've also contradicted yourself by bringing up current pedophile's conditions. Remember this:



Same situation. We don't know exactly how you'll be affected, and trying to use real world situations as backing up does not yield right answers.

No I'm basing mine on the original post. Look Azure, did the OP say or not that your likes and dislikes would be altered? Are you saying that if I like grown women now, my likes CANNOT be altered by the mindwipe to liking prepubescent ones? I don't get your entire argument that it CAN'T happen.

Also, thank you for proving my point. We don't know ANYTHING about the mindwipe, which is now something that you yourself seem to have conceded by attempting to take down my points.

Hence, there is a possibility for ANYTHING to happen. You can be a child molester. You may not be one.

What you've conveniently ignored is that I never you said you WILL be a child molester. But that you can't say for certain that won't.

The only thing certain is that we're not child molesters NOW. So getting into any arrangement which we can't predict that may or may not make us child molesters is saying my continued existence is worth taking a chance that I might be attracted to little children. Also a chance that I might be far more ambitious than I am now and might actually do something about that fetish.

Like I said, many, many people would take the mindwipe because the chances are so minuscule. Just please don't ask me to believe that anyone willing to take that chance is worthy of even an ounce of respect.

EDIT:

Quote from Devour

Is that a fair comparison? For this scenario, it's more like being shown a lottery ticket by a guy with a syringe needle to your throat, saying "you can enter this lottery to receive a random amount of money from a few bucks to a few thousand dollars, with a 1 in a million chance of being on the extremely good or horrible person.But if you don't enter it I'll poison you and you'll die in 3 years."
Like, I totally get and respect your point of view. In all likelihood though, nothing extreme would happen and that person being put on the spot shouldn't be expected to be responsible for microscopic odds of something going horribly wrong. People don't want to die, and they may never get another chance to be able to experience life. Dying is a huge deal, especially for people 14-20 years old whose lives are only just about to begin. I don't think wanting to live is despicable, I would call them victims of being put into such a horrible situation in the first place.

Agreed. I don't find it despicable at all that they want to live. Please note that if anyone takes the Mind Wipe WITHOUT considering all the other options, I would happily concede that they did what they felt was right. The only people I'd have a problem with are the ones who might consider all the alternatives and still choose it.

I don't think people who are afraid of death are despicable, but my stomach turns at the thought of anyone who wants to live even at the cost of a 0.1% chance of being a child molester. Maybe I'm just being too sentimental or anti-child-molestation for modern times.