Nish, you know who else could be a child molester or rapist? Current babies, both born and unborn. Should we start shanking pregnant women and burning down hospitals? No, of course not, that'd be stupid, and so would every guy cutting his balls of with a pair of scissors to stop any being born.

And that Mom and Dad thing isn't about emotional attachment, you really don't thing you'd be the least bit curious, and I know my friends wouldn't know initially about the mind wipe, but they'd more than likely know something was up when I dropped off the grid knowing I have brain cancer. And I still don't understand why you don't think anyone would ever know about this extremely advanced, successful procedure. Help me understating this one, where do you see this happening?

Quote from Crank

Nish, you know who else could be a child molester or rapist? Current babies, both born and unborn. Should we start shanking pregnant women and burning down hospitals? No, of course not, that'd be stupid, and so would every guy cutting his balls of with a pair of scissors to stop any being born.

This is troubling because I actually like you and enjoy your writings. So I'm torn between being harsh and being mild. I'm not sure what is stupider. Your argument or the fact that you seem to not realize that is it stupid. Did I say that everyone with a small of being a child molester should be killed? What I said, rather explicitly, is that if we, the patient, were NOT child molesters now, and there was even a balding hair's chance of BECOMING one, I wouldn't take that risk, and that I don't see how anyone who is even worthy of existence would take that risk. I'm not talking about newborns being born and turning into rapists, there is nothing we can do about that. But having someone who did not have the predilection before and potentially altering it (despite its tiny chance) is vastly different. I'm not saying we need to make the world a better place. I'm saying if YOU or ME as a person was faced with that chance, a true human being wouldn't gamble on being personally responsible for even LOOKING at child pornography, let alone liking it.

Quote from Crank

And that Mom and Dad thing isn't about emotional attachment, you really don't thing you'd be the least bit curious, and I know my friends wouldn't know initially about the mind wipe, but they'd more than likely know something was up when I dropped off the grid knowing I have brain cancer. And I still don't understand why you don't think anyone would ever know about this extremely advanced, successful procedure. Help me understating this one, where do you see this happening?

Because you clearly haven't read the OP properly. The intention of Envoy was that the decision is SUDDEN and IMMEDIATE. That means even you haven't heard of this procedure before (or know its application in brain cancer), otherwise you'd sort of know that it might be offered to you and you would have had time to think. That clearly wasn't Envoy's intention at all.

If you feel that we should change the scenario a bit, and continue this based on whether Mind Wipe is something people know about, I would be more than glad to show it would still be a questionable decision, and why just because your parents and friends know about Mind Wipe, it doesn't mean that you will feel any special kinship or affection towards them.

I understand the scenario perfectly fine, I've exhausted all other options, I have brain cancer and I'm dying in three years. That is the background for the scenario, that's all information that you've been know, the Wipe is the only thing happening instantly, and I fail to realize any professional surgical thing that'll basically leave me naked in the desert. These are still people doing this, they'd get word out that they accomplished something, and a cure for cancer is BIG news.

No one knows I've gotten a wipe except for every single person involved in the operation, their loved ones and everyone they told. Hence, I'm not worried about it getting around to people I know as well. You've got science going on, but also human nature

I did read the post, but I don't need time to think to see if I have identification on me.

EDIT: Oh hey, I was both those quotes!

Going along with this decision being "SUDDEN" and "IMMEDIATE" I'm a little disturbed how high on everyone's mind molestation is. That'd not be the first thing to flash in my mind, or anyone but your mind I'd wager. And go ahead and be harsh, because as is I'm struggling to figure out where half of this is coming from, but expect a long wait on a rely. Long days ahead

Quote from Crank

I understand the scenario perfectly fine, I've exhausted all other options, I have brain cancer and I'm dying in three years. That is the background for the scenario, that's all information that you've been know, the Wipe is the only thing happening instantly, and I fail to realize any professional surgical thing that'll basically leave me naked in the desert. These are still people doing this, they'd get word out that they accomplished something, and a cure for cancer is BIG news.

No one knows I've gotten a wipe except for every single person involved in the operation, their loved ones and everyone they told. Hence, I'm not worried about it getting around to people I know as well. You've got science going on, but also human nature

I did read the post, but I don't need time to think to see if I have identification on me.

Ok so we're going to leave aside the child molestation bit for now and discuss the how-famous-is-mind-wipe scenario?

I don't understand what any of what you said has to do with what we've been discussing. Maybe I'm stupid, but please point it out to me. I genuinely don't understand what you're telling me in the context of what we discussed. Is what you're telling me that you're going to assume that you DO know about the mindwipe in advance because it is actually famous (because that sort of seems to negate the OP's strict intention that it be a sudden decision, but ok I"ll go with your scenario if thats what you want)? You also seem to be saying that the surgeons who performed the mindwipe go and tell their families and this will eventually reach your family?

You're focusing on one of the most unimportant issues of the mindwipe i.e will people know I had the mind wipe rather than all the devastating consequences of it, and the implications of how things would actually change even if people DID know that you had a mind wipe.

EDIT: I would have preferred you posted after my post than edit your one because I almost didn't see it. Either way, here it is.

Quote from Crank

Going along with this decision being "SUDDEN" and "IMMEDIATE" I'm a little disturbed how high on everyone's mind molestation is. That'd not be the first thing to flash in my mind, or anyone but your mind I'd wager. And go ahead and be harsh, because as is I'm struggling to figure out where half of this is coming from, but expect a long wait on a rely. Long days ahead

I've already made it very, very clear that I have no problem with anyone making the Mind Wipe as an immediate decision without considering all the alternatives. However, it did strike me immediately that I could turn into a horrible person which is why I brought it up. My only gripe is with anyone who would take the Mindwipe even after considering the darker alternative of what could happen.

Nish, I'm digging the retro avatar. Wasn't that your first one?

Letting yourself die because of the incredibly faint chance that who you may become is crazy is really naive. I'm sure you're not just born as some ridiculous child sex monster without some conditioning, and if that conditioning is implied when you're mind wiped I'm not sure what you're getting at. Your personality and fetishes are determined by chemicals in your head, so just forgetting everything, but retaining your genetic code should mean that although you're a new person, you're not much more different than you are now.

TL;DR you're not going to be "born again gay", because your genetic code doesn't change. It just means you forget everything

Quote from Captain Cook

Nish, I'm digging the retro avatar. Wasn't that your first one?

Letting yourself die because of the incredibly faint chance that who you may become is crazy is really naive. I'm sure you're not just born as some ridiculous child sex monster without some conditioning, and if that conditioning is implied when you're mind wiped I'm not sure what you're getting at. Your personality and fetishes are determined by chemicals in your head, so just forgetting everything, but retaining your genetic code should mean that although you're a new person, you're not much more different than you are now.

TL;DR you're not going to be "born again gay", because your genetic code doesn't change. It just means you forget everything

I think its really cool that you're assuming this is a real procedure that operates under the "removing chemical but retaining genetics" sphere when in fact the original point of the debate was that it was a procedure that alters yours likes/dislikes etc. It doesn't matter if that is scientifically possible, the OP says thats what happens. So saying there is NO chance of becoming a pedophile is disregarding the intent of the debate.

Honestly, I only edited it in because I didn't know you were already viewing the thread. Why I keep bringing up that going crazy thing though, is because you seen to bring it up every comment. Why I keep bringing up that the word will get out and get to people you care about (news, your phone, doesn't really matter) is because your support system is going to be the most important part of dealing with all the consciences of everything. You aren't going to get out of this alright on your own like it or not, and like them or not your friends and family are going to back you and help you get back to your feet. If this happened to your best friend, you wouldn't bail on him or her, would you?

I feel like we've been kinda getting into it, so don't read that last line like I'm being a cocky dick, it's meant to be sincere

Quote from Crank

Honestly, I only edited it in because I didn't know you were already viewing the thread. Why I keep bringing up that going crazy thing though, is because you seen to bring it up every comment. Why I keep bringing up that the word will get out and get to people you care about (news, your phone, doesn't really matter) is because your support system is going to be the most important part of dealing with all the consciences of everything. You aren't going to get out of this alright on your own like it or not, and like them or not your friends and family are going to back you and help you get back to your feet. If this happened to your best friend, you wouldn't bail on him or her, would you?

I feel like we've been kinda getting into it, so don't read that last line like I'm being a cocky dick, it's meant to be sincere

No I wouldn't bail or him or her... but my question is, is that enough to justify a mindwipe? The support of friends and family? Is there a support system that can truly negate the fact that you might now be a horrible person? Is the acceptance of our friends and family enough for it to be ok for us to be sexually attracted to children?

If you have a kid you have the same odds of them being like that. Is that enough reason to never start a family? This would be longer and more in depth, but I gotta get back to work

Quote from Crank

If you have a kid you have the same odds of them being like that. Is that enough reason to never start a family? This would be longer and more in depth, but I gotta get back to work

No you're again not getting the concept of it. Its not about not bringing a new kid into the world. There is nothing you can do about that, freak chances happen all of the time, you can't prevent it blah blah blah I get all the arguments, I understand all the 'tiny chance' logic.

But do you YOURSELF want to turn into one of those? Would you want to take even the tiniest chance that you PERSONALLY would be responsible for indulging in those things? Not a bad child, not a bad friend. YOU. YOU TURN INTO THAT (possibly, chances are minimal but present).

If the chance is sufficiently tiny, why not?

His point is if you're going to be risk averse because of a possibility like this, then that logic naturally should carry over to similar situations. Not sure why you're dismissing that part of his argument when he's just looking for logical consistency.

Quote from Exilement

If the chance is sufficiently tiny, why not?

How tiny is sufficiently tiny for something like that? To me the threshold would be zero. I never said it was not logical to take the tiny chance. I said it was not respectable.

Quote from Exilement

His point is if you're going to be risk averse because of a possibility like this, then that logic naturally should carry over to similar situations. Not sure why you're dismissing that part of his argument when he's just looking for logical consistency.

I wasn't dismissing that part of the argument, I was wondering why he was making it. Ok, so you have a support group. So what?

I meant his child-rearing comparison. If you don't respect someone for taking a gamble like this to save his own life, do you not respect people for having kids when the risk of being directly responsible for bringing someone bad into the world is possibly even more likely?

Quote from Exilement

I meant his child-rearing comparison. If you don't respect someone for taking a gamble like this to save his own life, do you not respect people for having kids when the risk of being directly responsible for bringing someone bad into the world is possibly even more likely?

No, because if your children are fundamentally geared towards pedophilia. There is nothing you can do. However, life would come to a standstill if we all do nothing based on that fear.

However, in this case, YOU become that guy who does it. My point isn't "Would you want the world to have one more pedophile?". My point isn't "Why would you bring a pedophile into this world." My point has nothing to do with the world itself. My point is "Would you personally be ok with being someone who is a pedophile?". Fuck the world, theres always gonna be pedos. It could be your kid, your family, anything. But would YOU, someone who isn't a pedo, be ok with potentially becoming one? To me, anything that is more than a 0% chance is something that I would run from.

I wouldn't be okay with becoming one but if the alternative is certain death and the risk is fairly low I don't see how it's not a respectable decision. I don't want to die in a car accident or be a paraplegic but I still get in the car every morning. It just seems odd that this specific risk is one you're so adamant about avoiding.