Quote from lewislewis

If earths were increased to 6s it wouldn't it cause problems?

Yes.
I didn't bother mentioning the assumption that along with that chompler transformation would be doubled in speed (end result earth -> miner still takes 8 seconds), I thought it was already clear given people always suggest the two changes together (and neither makes sense on their own).

Nice so we can achive the same rate of miner production as order. (well almost)

Infernos meteor pools seem balanced. Their dragon summon isent thou. I would suggest that the attack is twice as fast but has a damage nerf

Cycloids main problem is their very expensive for what they are. If they were cheaper we wouldn't have this problem

they get kited when trying to attack air units. their not fast enough but they would be to be ridiculously fast to keep up with them. ( they can catch up but then they fall behind once they attack) the concept is floored really.

Their good as support units the protect spell has really reached its maximum potential.

How could you buff it?

it already at its maximum potential really. maybe it could do more damage but that we be unfair. Tornado. as well if that did more damage it would be op.

Cycloids. Balanced but too expensive

My concern is that cycloids that aren't easily kited will literally own the air and then massing them will shut down archers too, which will be a free win.

I don't think having cycloids as support units and ariel combat units will work, ariel tanks for airs to dps, sure, but I can't see them working as both combat and support unless they are buffed in power and made even more costly to compensate, something I think may be the wrong direction for an already expensive unit.

I don't think they should be both personally Id like them to be support units. Protect is a support spell. And their not that good at dealing damage apart from the tornado spell. They can't be anti air as that idea is all ready flawed. They need to stay as they are really but be cheapened but that's not going to happen.

The idea of a tank for airs is interesting but is that unfair on the other empires it could also open up the possibility of air only armies. Removeing spears out completely is that some thing we want to do?

Actually I have a strange idea
how about the "Protect" spell heals the target too? Maybe not instantly but over time?

I used to talk with nuto and he said that Charrog+air/fire combo was good until water is nerfed as they actually cannot heals the charrogs
I think air is fine, just a different "style" ranged unit, DPS quite decent if they can stay still
the ultimate problem is ele srsly lack a proper meatshield/tanker

maybe my protect spell suggestion helps

p.s. also yea, make water heals please

What if we just get rid of the whole stun element of earths and just give them sword attack rate + dmg. Seems fair, stops crawlers from wrecking earths via animation cancel. Waters stay as is, but replace blind gate with a meric-like unit consisting of a water and 200 mana, basically the cost of a meric, 50 g more which isn't too bad considering the water itself can heal to a certain extent. Blindgate doesn't benefit ele anyways so why keep it? Also maybe fix incapable of defending with 2 earths = a rock wall, lower hp than a order wall or maybe keep it the same. Some of these ideas require more need of interactive plays, while giving ele what it lacks. Nerf charrog health slightly to balance out the ele meric. You could always just turn blind gate into a wall, returning the earth basically means wall is the cost of an air, kinda expensive but you can't have everything.

I do think CJ wants to make a special empire, and he strives for it
you can see that ele's mechanism is completely different from order and chaos
you can see how Wzydm pointed them out (Elemental empire looks like it is from completely different game)

So making Earths similar to swordwrath is just the same as "making elemental works like order and chaos"
I don't think CJ wants to head to that direction anyway :c

my idea is mainly to establish a proper meatshield for ele

p.s. Yea the blindgate, I think CJ is striving to create a unique structure but I do think it needs some fixes and buffs

Quote from Azxc

I do think CJ wants to make a special empire, and he strives for it
you can see that ele's mechanism is completely different from order and chaos
you can see how Wzydm pointed them out (Elemental empire looks like it is from completely different game)

So making Earths similar to swordwrath is just the same as "making elemental works like order and chaos"
I don't think CJ wants to head to that direction anyway :c

my idea is mainly to establish a proper meatshield for ele

p.s. Yea the blindgate, I think CJ is striving to create a unique structure but I do think it needs some fixes and buffs

I think blindgate could be useful if units aren't allowed to shoot past it. This way, they cannot be pressured by archers camping by the second row of gold, which is the main reason ele can't get the proper gold fund it requires. Give blindgate a health bar maybe a little better than the order wall so the ele can chomp on gold in peace for a set period of time?

Quote from AsePlayer

I think blindgate could be useful if units aren't allowed to shoot past it. This way, they cannot be pressured by archers camping by the second row of gold, which is the main reason ele can't get the proper gold fund it requires

HELL NO

If ele is behind don't give it another option to camp and deny Order aggression, let it stay behind. Ele needs anti archer units and macro so it doesn't need to turtle, don't buff its turtling.

Quote from Azxc

Actually I have a strange idea
how about the "Protect" spell heals the target too? Maybe not instantly but over time?

My line of thought with that was making protect grant immunity to debuffs (incluiding reap) which would make it nicer and give ele a better time against chaos mages without making chaos mages irrelevant.

Quote from Skeletonxf

My line of thought with that was making protect grant immunity to debuffs (incluiding reap) which would make it nicer and give ele a better time against chaos mages without making chaos mages irrelevant.

I actually agree with that idea, now, V's can't get shrekt by chaos mages instantly

Quote from AsePlayer

I actually agree with that idea, now, V's can't get shrekt by chaos mages instantly

Yeah. Late game that should help ele out quite a bit in EvC without doing much else to other matchups.

Maybe this is somethimg for after the next patch but Ele still lacks a late game unit. Are supposed to posses a giant? The more I think about the more I like a giant tree

Quote from Azxc

I do think CJ wants to make a special empire, and he strives for it
you can see that ele's mechanism is completely different from order and chaos
you can see how Wzydm pointed them out (Elemental empire looks like it is from completely different game)

So making Earths similar to swordwrath is just the same as "making elemental works like order and chaos"
I don't think CJ wants to head to that direction anyway :c

This is the best answer I've seen here. Yet this is exactly why we have this situation with elementals. There wasn't a theory or any rhyme behind how elementals would operate; they just made units and combinations and threw them in calling it a day. The pace of gameplay and unit design for order and chaos were crafted before implementation. This is why the other 2 empires do not need to be touched (save chaos cuz its op biblethump).

As long as the structure of elementals remains like this, it will not be balanced. I understand having something different is nice. But we're talking about adding something like a Pokemon Trainer to Super Smash Bros. Wait, they did that with Brawl... and guess what people can say about it? Squirtle was the only reasonable character, and if you could play only Squirtle, it would be fine. That's the issue we have with eles. Treatures are like Squirtle. They're very good. But then treatures eventually stop working. Then what do you do?

All this talk on adjusting different units to buff them up is just foolish and overall won't accomplish anything. You'll just make another Squirtle. And that's all you'll ever see.

Elementals need square one. Subtle changes for the last year have done nothing but vary the power of treatures. Large changes will only make things worse creating another onslaught of whatever unit is best. Take elementals to square one and just format it like the other empires. Keep some of the new tech, but it needs to at least follow the same rules! Look at how Ryu and Snake work in Smash Bros. They follow the character structure with having an up-b recovery, shield, grab, standard attacks, and special attacks. Elementals is like a character with just a really good smash attack but no shield or grab and a slightly worse than normal recovery. So yeah, keep throwing out smash attacks guys.

Probably made way too many smash references for you guys to understand but hey, that's what game I play more of anyway.

TL;DR Special empire means special needs (pun unintended). Without the formatting of the other empires, it will never follow the same rules, thus feeling out of place.

Whether or not CJ wants the empire to be special is totally up to him, but What is an elemental player supposed to do with the flaming spell caster, king of the turtles. He is slow af, and no matter how many castle airs you get, it will be shinobied upon.

Quote from AsePlayer

Whether or not CJ wants the empire to be special is totally up to him. But what is an elemental player supposed to do with the flaming spell caster, o great King of the Turtles? He is slow af, and no matter how many castle airs you get, it will be shinobied upon.

Fixed.... I think. It's hard to tell what exactly you're trying to say. But yeah that's a thing with spell casters son, they get cloaked. Just deal with it. Same goes for chaos spell casters and order spell casters. I mean, the hell you want, beefier units? Shit, did you even read my post?