Quote from WyzDM

Fixed.... I think. It's hard to tell what exactly you're trying to say. But yeah that's a thing with spell casters son, they get cloaked. Just deal with it. Same goes for chaos spell casters and order spell casters. I mean, the hell you want, beefier units? Shit, did you even read my post?

Jus make it have medusa health so it can stand a couple seconds before it dies ;o

Quote from AsePlayer

Jus make it have medusa health so it can stand a couple seconds before it dies ;o

Doesn't need it. Hell even Medusa doesn't need it.

Quote from WyzDM

Doesn't need it. Hell even Medusa doesn't need it.

True. Speed up dragon call?

Quote from AsePlayer

True. Speed up dragon call?

I'm starting to think you can't read.

Quote from WyzDM

I'm starting to think you can't read.

Well let's be honest, it needs to be sped up, too easy to dodge.

I hope I can read, just a suggestion tho.

Quote from WyzDM

infernos can do the dragon spell even if they die before it's summoned. I think this is stupid and not needed. It makes it even more risky to approach, and can reward some dumb scenarios where you get the kill but then get shat on by a dragon from some dying hope that only has the game drag on for no reason. I mean, if you're gonna favor this to stay, I want my venom fluxes to happen even after you shinobi my magikill during his spell casting. What do you say, fair trade?

I already posted how I felt about it. The dragon summoning is a powerful spell. Why would you make it free? Don't use it to literally target the foe. The enemy will move if he has a brain. Spells offer a unique area of controlling space. They just kinda say "if you're in this range, eat ____ "

So no, I'm not in favor of making the second most damaging spell in the game faster.

Quote from WyzDM

Doesn't need it. Hell even Medusa doesn't need it.

On the contrary, Chaos without the presence of merics like Order can stand a little more hp. Merics and mages, if they weren't OHK'd, would immediately be healed up by staggered merics and rendered obsolete. Medusa can keep its hp.

so if we end up increasing the que time and leaving everything else pretty much the same what would games look like then?
speeding up waters will be insane as archers need to be able to kite them or order really has no chance.
ele also has no other early game unit that can be produced that early in the game to deal with swords so the order player in actuality no matter what happens during the game cannot go any further into their eco with the constant pressure of swords coming for 125 which allows for there to be a profit made of 25 with every return of two which ele does not benefit from. same can be said for chaos with the 100 g cost that allows for units to be made along side miners.
changing earths current meta is just... no.
even if you don't like the idea that ele gets eco for free, (which it really doesn't as applying pressure to ele isn't even a problem for myself and myst) I feel like most of you just want to be able to end the game at the same speed as an ovo matchup of archer/swords on castle.
with the castle air thing it just made it worse for the enemy player approaching ele as really the dps coming from the enemy units will not change with ele being able to tank and stall for a little bit before the groups of swords become overwhelming. giving castle air aoe WITH burn just seemed counterproductive. it really just seems like a slightly less powerful castle archer with burn with no true way to tank still so your archer can still can double sniped.
waters and earths only real role should be to tank and possibly catch and enemy mistakes not to become an actual meta.
im not sure how it will affect evc.
im currently thinking from the perspective of order vs ele keeping in mind all the subtle nuances.

Quote from PUMU

even if you don't like the idea that ele gets eco for free, (which it really doesn't as applying pressure to ele isn't even a problem for myself and myst) I feel like most of you just want to be able to end the game at the same speed as an ovo matchup of archer/swords on castle.
with the castle air thing it just made it worse for the enemy player approaching ele as really the dps coming from the enemy units will not change with ele being able to tank and stall for a little bit before the groups of swords become overwhelming. giving castle air aoe WITH burn just seemed counterproductive. it really just seems like a slightly less powerful castle archer with burn with no true way to tank still so your archer can still can double sniped.

Please tell me how to pressure into ele when they have a CAir then. Especially given the rest of your quote is explaining how the CAir is so strong.

I play smash too. squirrel did get cut thou (i don't want that to happen to ele)

I don't want to criticise the devs cause i love them and i play their game every day but you can tell elemental is badly designed and as Whyz said their was no thought to how elemental would work in practise.

Hard choices are going to have too be made and oh its the devs work is not a reason to keep that feature.


I would consider getting rid of tress


Tress (their are 11 ele units if we make miner and earth separate) kill of two that 9 units that can be put into the new empire that have a structure. Tress only place would be as a early game spell caster and i imagine lots of people will love this unit cause its like SW1 magikill but tough choices have to be made.

Or we could make tress into giants and make earths morph into miners and achieve 9 unit slots this way.

Tress are ill thought out if the game was balanced they would be of MUCH less use.

The stupid prices for units and the ridiculous amount of gold required.



V should have more health and armour but would be the most expensive mage. would survive shinobi and stone face.

Waters should do damage give them a offensive role of some kind

Airs would need mana but have a health increase they would be a tier 2 ranged unit. or same health but a change to their attack. upgrade for burn 300 gold

Fires would shoot straight or have more horizontal range upgrade for burn. 300 gold

I would cut health of charhogs boost water healing back to the old method of a certain amount is healed to everyone sharing health is stupid.

Charhogs would have a cost reduction and lose burrow ability to make up for it. all melee tank tier 2 units would have 1 ability each. Spears shield Juggerknight charge charhogs burn.

Infernos would have damage nerf and speed increase to their dragon summon spell.

Blind gate would be a structure and would have health

Scorch would go maybe it could be a infernos suicide spell but that would require more balance.

Most important kill combinations

Quote from Skeletonxf

Please tell me how to pressure into ele when they have a CAir then. Especially given the rest of your quote is explaining how the CAir is so strong.

.-.

Order:
Keep your swords spread out.
Pull your archers back when the CAir murders a sword so it doesn't target archers.
Rinse Repeat -- kill his miners.

Chaos:
.-.
super spam cats miners and bombs.
lead in with cats -- forget Cair is there until you bombs are done or you run out of cats.
Make more bombs and cats into eclipsors.

Quote from spino

.-.

Order:
Keep your swords spread out.
Pull your archers back when the CAir murders a sword so it doesn't target archers.
Rinse Repeat -- kill his miners.

Chaos:
.-.
super spam cats miners and bombs.
lead in with cats -- forget Cair is there until you bombs are done or you run out of cats.
Make more bombs and cats into eclipsors.

You can honestly send in a quick spear with order and harass the economy.

With chaos you can cat mass and buy the upgrades. There really isn't much to stop you unless for an explosion.

I guess these two already answered it.
I liked how the castle air was previously. made more sense and wasn't as much of a factor

Quote from PUMU

I guess these two already answered it.
I liked how the castle air was previously. made more sense and wasn't as much of a factor

I honestly think that it's better the way it is now, seeing as it previously snipped archers with it's excessively long range. The aoe burn damage makes up for the loss of DPS.

I hope I am not the only one who still wished for some castle fire instead of castle air. Similar range to the CA and CD, idk, piercing burn dmg to not allow sword/cat mass that easily, requires you to be more careful with your bomb running behind the cat, just add a little extra dmg to the first target it hits so spears don't wreck it. Of course increase the ever so slow speed of the fireball, solves the range problem at the least.

Now if you are that person who argues about realism...

Why would floating troops want to stay on top of a castle when they could just float to the enemy base? (jk).