Quote from Steyene

Yes but I didn't say that I/or Christians generally don't generalize. I am also referring to the group of people who believe that there is no god.

So you're saying that everyone generalizes. Uhm, ok, but that means your last post was just a cheap shot.

As for the book, I will once I finish it >_> Although I do think that you should read it as I have read "The God Delusion" which I have to say is full of the rhetoric, malice and bigotry that it so harshly accuses religion of using.

I am actually reading it right now. Ok, its harsh, but it is pretty logical. I'm up to the bit about getting morals from the bible and how Joshua burned down cities and stole the women :/

As for the sin thing.

Adam and Eve represent the whole of humanity.

So why do we have to have guilt, why did Jesus die for us? Because a part of our nature does indeed exist? In any case, I'm not feeling guilty for something that is part of human nature.

Quote from suliro

if he didnt we would not have technology

Quote from Steyene

Yes because that claim is entirely philosophical and has some thought and logic behind it to back it up.

He obviously was just doing that for a reaction, yo.

Anyway, it is a "hard" read but it gives another perspective to this argument. As for why we have guilt, and why we Jesus had to die for us.

Cmooon, finish it and sum it up so I can be lazy :P

My personal stance on guilt is, that with out it we wouldn't be able to tell when we are in the wrong. It is like a big flashing light that turns on when we have done something that we know is bad.

Yeah, I'm not saying guilt is bad or anything. I'm just saying it seems to me like Christians focus on sin and guilt far too much.

So as a result for a Christian, when they/we are feeling guilty, it is normally a good indicator that we need to pray to God for forgiveness.

If I was feeling guilty for doing something bad to someone else, I would apologize to them. God shouldn't be able to forgive you for something you did to someone else. It should be up to the person.

Jesus died for us, because despite the fact that we have been ass raping God's love for us, he still in fact loves us.

Alright, moving on...

So he gave us the option to be able to directly love him back, so yes again he could of forced us to love him back, and yes he could of come down in a hail of fire and brimestone and forced us to, but that would of defeated the purpose of putting us here in the first place.

So he came and killed himself/his son for... what? To put in bluntly, who was he trying to impress?

Edit:
As for the "Cheap Shot" it isn't really, I mean take a look through the various debates that have been here, and see some of the Atheists reactions to me trying to call "Atheism" and religion or organization. Normally it ends in a tirade of words, saying how no Atheists have the same belief or that all Atheists are different so that you can't classify them.

Well yeah, Atheism is a personal belief and not an organized religion. I do hate it when I am lumped with others, although when it comes to debating we like to sort of form groups.

Quote from Bonk

Cmooon, finish it and sum it up so I can be lazy :P

Still reading >_> DAMN YOU FORMAL EDUCATION

Yeah, I'm not saying guilt is bad or anything. I'm just saying it seems to me like Christians focus on sin and guilt far too much.

I whole-heartedly agree with you there, guilt is there to show sin. Which then means that we make amends, by forgiving or apologizing to the person or group that we have wronged, and then apologize to God, then move on. The more that guilt hangs in your heart the more that you think it is worthless even trying, which drives you from God. Everything is good in moderation.

If I was feeling guilty for doing something bad to someone else, I would apologize to them. God shouldn't be able to forgive you for something you did to someone else. It should be up to the person.

See above

Alright, moving on...

Indeed

So he came and killed himself/his son for... what? To put in bluntly, who was he trying to impress?

No one, he just wanted to give us the option to have a personal relationship with him, which he did by giving up his own son as a "sacrifice" for us. We don't have to take it how ever, but the option is there if you really wish for yourself to have a relationship with him

Well yeah, Atheism is a personal belief and not an organized religion. I do hate it when I am lumped with others, although when it comes to debating we like to sort of form groups.

I could say the same about my Christian belief, my interpretation is entirely different to any other Christians, therefore I don't want to be called a Christian. If I had said that I would be retarded somewhat as all Christian have the same base belief that unifies us regardless. I believe the same for Atheists, but rather it is a unified dis-belief in a God, that makes all "Atheists".

I whole-heartedly agree with you there, guilt is there to show sin. Which then means that we make amends, by forgiving or apologizing to the person or group that we have wronged, and then apologize to God, then move on. The more that guilt hangs in your heart the more that you think it is worthless even trying, which drives you from God. Everything is good in moderation.

No one, he just wanted to give us the option to have a personal relationship with him, which he did by giving up his own son as a "sacrifice" for us. We don't have to take it how ever, but the option is there if you really wish for yourself to have a relationship with him

I could say the same about my Christian belief, my interpretation is entirely different to any other Christians, therefore I don't want to be called a Christian. If I had said that I would be retarded somewhat as all Christian have the same base belief that unifies us regardless. I believe the same for Atheists, but rather it is a unified dis-belief in a God, that makes all "Atheists".

It throws across some decent ideas about this topic, as well as about the Atheist's refusal to be placed in the same boat as any other Atheist yet willing to generalize every one else at the drop of a hat if it suits their argument.

Quote from the Jawz

All these threads about religion have ever done for anyone is make people angry at eachother.

Quote from Jeremy

That doesn't explain why we have to apologize to god when he was never involved in the issue in the first place.

How does killing his son give us a personal relationship with him? Its just a killing, it doesn't demonstrate anything other than sacrifice.

The thing is though, Christians are unified by dogma and practice, atheists are not. You follow the teachings of Christ, and use the bible as a holy book. Atheist have nothing to connect each other AT ALL besides the disbelief in a god.

Whats wrong with this statement is that not all atheists debate religion or theology, or even actively practice their atheism. In fact I think more atheists don't care rather than the ones that do.

Quote from Steyene

@MoD, read up before you ****ing make a fool of your self. He used to ask for animal sacrifice but Jesus made that redundant.

@Bonk, I didn't say so, I was making an observation that most Atheists that I know "follow" science and use it to explain everything, including the currently unexplainable. Pretty much in the same way Christians use God. >_>