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Higher FPS, Better animator?

Started by: Kitsune | Replies: 126 | Views: 6,772

XCell
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Mar 24, 2008 6:48 AM #99797
This could not be farther from the truth actually. A good animation factors in many things (no particular order):
1. Art
2. Story
3. Quality

FPS (Frames Per Second) only falls under Quality. Granted the animation may be smooth but if it is shit for artwork and has no point then very few people are going to stick around.
Kitsune
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Mar 24, 2008 6:56 AM #99804
Quote from pagan
am i being trolled? i can barely understand you, it's a bunch of really wishy-washy "i actually meant THIS specifically!!!" junk


If you cannot understand what I am saying, then learn to read. I really could not have made my point clearer.

You take out HALF of the frames and take out HALF of the framerate, the motions will not distort, nor will they change, but become, in a sense, of less quality. There is nothing more to it, really.

Why are you calling my TRYING TO MAKE MY POINT CLEARER TO YOUR SMALL BRAIN, a bunch of really wishy-washy "i actually meant THIS specifically!!!" junk? They are statements that you should be listening to! Because I was saying what I meant specifically. You, apparently are not listening to what I meant specifically!

If you will not listen to me, perhaps someone can help with explaining so you could listen to someone else. I'm going to bed soon. :P
XCell
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Mar 24, 2008 7:13 AM #99834
Well Kitsune though the length of the animation may not be affected quality will if you reduce the frames and framerate in half, it will seem more choppy.
Kitsune
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Mar 24, 2008 7:17 AM #99839
Quote from XCell
Well KItsune though the length of the animation may not be affected quality will if you reduce the frames and framerate in half, it will seem more choppy.


Thank you!

Exeunt Omnes!

Good night!

:P
Dinomut
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Mar 24, 2008 7:31 AM #99847
@ kitsune: lol. really letting yourself go there aren't ya?
@ spazzy: alright you win. i don't want to argue anymore. My opinion is still the same, but i'm tired. and just so this isn't completely off topic heres my final opinion: high fps animators need more TECHNICAL skill to animate than low fps animators do. creativity varies on both sides, and there really is no correlation with that, but technically, high fps animators need to be more skilled than low fps animators.
Ssjbryando
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Mar 24, 2008 11:12 AM #99988
im just saying. it doesn't make you a better animator, if you have alot of practice and skill, on lower fps of course. but like everyone says. When you lets say use 18 fps, The movement skip is to high, because you leave to much space in it. cause if you don't do that, it turns out to smooth. and you have to up the framerate.

So with higher fps lets say 30. you have more time, to just sit out the movements, and do the move in like 10 steps, instead of 5 steps, meaning if you do it right of course, it will turn out smoother, since it has less moveskip stuff.

But of course, if your skilled in the lower ones, it is no problem either. but to be honest, when I look at smooth videos, such as ghostfight2006 (that on was 40 fps) If never seen something that smooth. But it also turns out smooth if you do it right on 18fps. >__> so I guess, but with higher you have more CHANCE to make a complicated move or something. >_< I guess well w/e I work 24-26-28 always
CriticalDesign
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Mar 24, 2008 4:49 PM #100254
I don't even understand Kitsune's debate. Kitsune seems to be saying that higher FPS will somehow look better if the animation requires it, because if that animation was running at a lower fps, it would not look as good.

As true as that is, it's really not part of the debate - "Higher FPS, better animator?". All it is saying is that the more frames played per second, the smoother the animation will be, however it doesn't mean that when a person animates at a low framerate, their animation will no longer be as good as one animated at a higher framerate.
Exile
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Mar 24, 2008 7:52 PM #100374
No, he's just missing Pagan's entire point that Kitsune is arguing towards a topic that's irrelevant to the initial debate, and mostly common sense, and providing examples for it that don't prove anything. A low framerate can negatively effect an original creation meant for a higher one, but that doesn't mean that low framerates can't be used to make animations better than ones utilizing higher ones. Since that's the core of the discussion, he's bringing up irrelevant information.
Chimaera
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Mar 24, 2008 8:53 PM #100422
Quote from Fr0zEnPh0eNiX
The fact that someone told any of you that the FPS someone uses has any correlation with their skill at all makes me feel physically ill.

It doesn't really matter in the end. While it may be true that 60FPS is the cap for human eyesight to really pick up for video games I don't find this to be true for animations... since that doesn't take into account rendering and all of that jazz...

I've seen damn good animations range anywhere from 16+ fps... as well as really shitty animations. At this point your eyes aren't really going to pick up what's going on so it doesn't make a difference if you animate 16 fps or 20000 fps... you will probably notice a difference but not a large enough one that would even matter in the long run.

30 fps is basically the movie standard so if you can do that, more power to you, you can go head to head with TV... but again that really doesn't matter because you can convert it's format to something else and give the same effect as your slower FPS on a higher FPS format... and therefore it will be 30 fps using double frames. Again, doesn't matter.

So if someone says you rule because your FPS is so high, or you suck because it's low. Tell them to **** off and go read wikipedia or use google once in a while.


Wall o' Text > You.
[/Thread]
Gavel
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Mar 25, 2008 1:46 AM #100727
Quote from Kitsune
Your post was the second topic. That's right, your post is a totally different topic on its own. You stated that FPS and the quality of an animation are both completely un-connecting Ideas and cannot possibly associate with each other. I was replying to that giving this example: Take one animation, take half the frames, and make it half the FPS and compare them. In this example, as well as Mona Lisa, the 20 fps and the 250 colors prevails in quality. I DID NOT in that post, say that higher FPS makes an animation better or that it makes a better animator, I simply stated that the ideas of Quality and Detail of motion through FPS can in fact be connected!

Whoa which side have you been on this whole time, then?

The quality of the animation will differ, if that's not the quality being aimed for in the style of the animation. But as was said before (and I thought you were in agreement with this) there are many different styles of animation. Smoothness does not equal better unless that's what the animator was trying to achieve when animating.

Quote from SSJBryando
im just saying. it doesn't make you a better animator, if you have alot of practice and skill, on lower fps of course. but like everyone says. When you lets say use 18 fps, The movement skip is to high, because you leave to much space in it. cause if you don't do that, it turns out to smooth. and you have to up the framerate.

Same as what was said to Kitsune. Not every animation has to be smooth in order to look good. Smoothness may connect to quality, but if your style of animation doesn't call for smoothness, that doesn't hinder it in any way.

Quote from drocksta
@ spazzy: alright you win. i don't want to argue anymore. My opinion is still the same, but i'm tired. and just so this isn't completely off topic heres my final opinion: high fps animators need more TECHNICAL skill to animate than low fps animators do. creativity varies on both sides, and there really is no correlation with that, but technically, high fps animators need to be more skilled than low fps animators.

Yeah, I see what you're saying, but I still say that an animation with a lower frame rate would take less skill to make than a higher one. You're still drawing the same things. The only disadvantage it has over an animation with a lower frame rate is that it would take longer. But if you can draw and can correlate the changes in objects and their movements, then you don't need the skill aspect of it. All you need is patience.

At any rate, I tip my hat to you. You were a worthy opponent.

Quote from Exilement
No, he's just missing Pagan's entire point that Kitsune is arguing towards a topic that's irrelevant to the initial debate, and mostly common sense, and providing examples for it that don't prove anything. A low framerate can negatively effect an original creation meant for a higher one, but that doesn't mean that low framerates can't be used to make animations better than ones utilizing higher ones. Since that's the core of the discussion, he's bringing up irrelevant information.

Pretty much what I was going to say except you already said it.
NCz
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Mar 25, 2008 2:25 AM #100759
Another thing that could be brought up is framing. Say i could do a 50 fps animation, but quadruple frame the animation

http://www.swfme.com/view/1256362

example is shit. but i'm wondering if this is a valid point or if it doesn't count towards your skill level...
Gavel
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Mar 25, 2008 2:33 AM #100766
Quote from stickdudenick
Another thing that could be brought up is framing. Say i could do a 50 fps animation, but quadruple frame the animation

http://www.swfme.com/view/1256362

example is shit. but i'm wondering if this is a valid point or if it doesn't count towards your skill level...


Read the above post and Exilement's post and pagan's post...
Fplus

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Mar 25, 2008 9:06 PM #101445
Quote from retroman
I used to use the lowest FPS on Pivot, but once I got better, I sped up my animations to the default FPS.


Same thing I did. I think that, obviously, animating at a higher FPS is harder and takes longer, but if you're patient enought, will be smoother. I think that you have the ability to make your animations smoother and more realistic with a higher FPS, but about 12-15 FPS can still dish out some decent results.
Gavel
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Mar 25, 2008 10:23 PM #101497
Quote from Fplus
Same thing I did. I think that, obviously, animating at a higher FPS is harder and takes longer, but if you're patient enought, will be smoother. I think that you have the ability to make your animations smoother and more realistic with a higher FPS, but about 12-15 FPS can still dish out some decent results.

What is it with everyone here linking the amount of time something takes to it's difficulty? Yes it takes longer, but that doesn't necessarilly mean it's harder. Aren't you basically drawing the same thing? If you have artistic capabilities, the only thing differing between the two is the amount of time it takes, not the difficulty.
Kitsune
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Mar 26, 2008 12:19 AM #101710
Quote from Spazz
Whoa which side have you been on this whole time, then?

The quality of the animation will differ, if that's not the quality being aimed for in the style of the animation. But as was said before (and I thought you were in agreement with this) there are many different styles of animation. Smoothness does not equal better unless that's what the animator was trying to achieve when animating.


I know that, and I do agree with you. It does not equal better, it can just effect the quality when it is the same movie. My statement was an example in response to his post which was, in my view, a different topic.

The message I was trying to get through was not in response to what the last 10 previous pages were about. OVERALL, FPS, in my opinion, is not a big difference and, (yes, as stated before, in agreement) that It goes with the style of the animator.

I am sorry if my posts caused any confusion at my standings to this whole matter. I am done explaining that example and am now going to move back to the original topic.
Quote from Exilement
No, he's just missing Pagan's entire point that Kitsune is arguing towards a topic that's irrelevant to the initial debate, and mostly common sense, and providing examples for it that don't prove anything. A low framerate can negatively effect an original creation meant for a higher one, but that doesn't mean that low framerates can't be used to make animations better than ones utilizing higher ones. Since that's the core of the discussion, he's bringing up irrelevant information.


Pretty much. I am tired, and an idiot when I stay up until 2 a.m. Sorry about that. :(

I must have misunderstood the whole thing and that typing was for nothing then. Ah well. As I said, I am moving back to the original topic so that I can forget my idiotic mistakes. :(
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