I didn't ever say you should be forced to give up your rights (did I?), I just said that this man was an idiot for not doing so here. I also briefly lost my temper and generalised to all Americans but I'm back now.

I don't think it really does depend on the right. Would you, for example, sacrifice your life to stop a terrorist attack of the same proportions as 9/11?

Thats not a fair question, you cant rightfully ask someone to give up their life to save anothers. They would always come out looking selfish, would you?. How can it not vary on the right?

If my life were given to save enough others I think I would. The standard evolutionary ethic says you should give your life to save one identical twin / two siblings / two parents / four grandparents / four aunts or uncles / eight cousins, ect. It's based on the ammount of genes you share with them.

On the spur of the moment when I didnt have a calculator with me I judge my own life to be worth about thirteen strangers.


For littler things like pain/pleasure I'm less certain. It's not a well defined area, and I'm the sort of person who dislikes anything he can't put into a formula.

Well normal people don't think on evolutionary terms, considering we are human, and we can completely ignore that part of ourselves. They think of all the things they will miss out on if they sacrificed themselves for others.

I think that if you were in a position where you could save people's lives at the expense of your own then your quality of life is going to plummet either way. If you let them die the guilt would be horrific. Then again, if you sacrifice yourself, you're dead.

It's probably a dificult thing to imagine without experiencing it.

How would you feel guilt? You didn't do anything wrong. Its not our duties to sacrifice our lives for the lives of others, we have zero obligation to do that. Its hypocritical to think that way anyways, the people who were dying that you would sacrifice yourself for would need to die anyways to protect you from dying to protect them, its ridiculous. I would feel bad for their families, but I wouldn't feel guilty.

This is exactly what my point is. You have no obligation to do it whatsoever, but if it's the right thing to do, shouldn't you do it anyway?

If it is the right thing to do then it is your obligation to do so.

But when it becomes an obligation you have lost your freedom to choose. An act cannot be wrong or right if you had no choice in the matter.

Just so no one quotes this anywhere else, I don't believe in free will but that is irrelevant in this case for many reasons.

Right and wrong are relative, but that will take us into a morality debate that will go on forever, lol.

And no, it is never your obligation to do what is right. We aren't in kindergarten anymore and this isn't a comic book, this is the real world.

What I've learned in my experience with the police, is that I have no rights.
Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is bullshitting themselves.
I've had so many of my rights violated at one time with no consequences for the police that violate them.
Gotta ****ing love marshall law.

Quote from Raffi

You know, i was gonna title the thread 'The Police. (no stings attached)'


but i thought the pun was so bad people wouldn't even click on it

Quote from The laughing man

Actually no, you consider your rights, ask them politely if they have probable cause or a warrant, if they don't, you ask to be on your way, and then by protocol they tell you okay. Done and done.

I agree with what hes saying, they have to have a reason to search you.