It depends on what one is doing and where they are doing it. If you are doing it in a smaller area, like your house or your community, your freedoms can be expanded because the laws are not completely enforced, but that is usually combated with the fact that right and wrong is rather common sense in society. Some laws are put in place to make sure that one does not interfere with another one's freedoms. E.g. Murder. However some other laws are probably put in for control of the people, and to help corporate companies etc. I don't know for sure but thats just what I assume.

I personally think our freedoms currently are just fine, if you want to do something that breaks the law, personal freedom isn't enough justification.

Quote from Socks

No... your "database" paragraph is simply just you rambling on about COMMON SENSE.

I believe that if somebody is afriad to do something it is most likely a lack of confidence/self-esteem more so than anything else. In the sense say approaching a girl or doing something that might gain attention. Note that, those example ARE POSSIBLE. I'm nearly certain that attempting to fly will result in a loss of energy from jumping and if attempted from heights could result in death.

Note I'm simply restating what Zed said (who had it right on the button). Blasphemer you should really learn to read.

I'm stating the exact same thing as you are.

Quote from Socks

I believe that if somebody is afriad to do something it is most likely a lack of confidence/self-esteem more so than anything else. In the sense say approaching a girl or doing something that might gain attention. Note that, those example ARE POSSIBLE. I'm nearly certain that attempting to fly will result in a loss of energy from jumping and if attempted from heights could result in death.

Yes they are possible, but you don't not do them out of free will, you don't do them because each event and occurance in your life has pushed you towards that. It's not free will in the sense that it's random and you decide on the spot (I'm finding this hard to explain), rather you're doing it based on the series of complex occurances from as young as possible. If you believe in this theory, you don't believe in free will. This is because the only reason you do something in this theory is because other events have made you do that thing. You could say "well that thing that made you do the other thing was done out of free will": wrong, the event causing you to do the other event was in turn caused by a previous event (note I'm simplifying it here, it's based off much more than a single event), stemming right back until conception... So everything you do is based off your genetics and how your environment around you affected you and your decisions. If you believe in this, as I do, you do not believe in free will.

Quote from Automaton

Yes they are possible, but you don't not do them out of free will, you don't do them because each event and occurance in your life has pushed you towards that. It's not free will in the sense that it's random and you decide on the spot (I'm finding this hard to explain), rather you're doing it based on the series of complex occurances from as young as possible. If you believe in this theory, you don't believe in free will. This is because the only reason you do something in this theory is because other events have made you do that thing. You could say "well that thing that made you do the other thing was done out of free will": wrong, the event causing you to do the other event was in turn caused by a previous event (note I'm simplifying it here, it's based off much more than a single event), stemming right back until conception... So everything you do is based off your genetics and how your environment around you affected you and your decisions. If you believe in this, as I do, you do not believe in free will.

You are too stubborn to listen to me, so think what you want. I don't see what you believe as rational thought and I believe you are overthinking life. I can't be bothered to change the opinon of somebody whom I don't know.

Quote from Socks

You are too stubborn to listen to me, so think what you want.

I could say the same to you, but that wouldn't bring anything good to the debate. Provide some arguments and I might listen, all you've said is that you think there is free will because it's physically possible to do things, and that that counts as having free will.

I don't see what you believe as rational thought and I believe you are overthinking life.

Again, I could say the same about you, and again I wouldn't because that would serve no purpose. Don't substitute ad hominen for an argument and proceed to call others stubborn.

I can't be bothered to change the opinon of somebody whom I don't know.

Fair enough, you can't be bothered to argue your point, don't. But don't then say the reason is that "I'm too stubborn".

And what's with all the bashing? Seriously, it seems you're throwing in a few ideas which I don't fully understand what they are pointing towards, then top it off with "WHY DO I COME TO SPP EVERYONES SO STUBBORN AND YOU KNOW WHAT I CANT BE BOTHERED TO DEBATE".

Quote from Automaton

I could say the same to you, but that wouldn't bring anything good to the debate. Provide some arguments and I might listen, all you've said is that you think there is free will because it's physically possible to do things, and that that counts as having free will.
Again, I could say the same about you, and again I wouldn't because that would serve no purpose. Don't substitute ad hominen for an argument and proceed to call others stubborn.
Fair enough, you can't be bothered to argue your point, don't. But don't then say the reason is that "I'm too stubborn".

And what's with all the bashing? Seriously, it seems you're throwing in a few ideas which I don't fully understand what they are pointing towards, then top it off with "WHY DO I COME TO SPP EVERYONES SO STUBBORN AND YOU KNOW WHAT I CANT BE BOTHERED TO DEBATE".

Response 1. I didn't mean to direct that to you, more so to Blasphemer who seemed to ignore all my posts.
Response 2. Lol, I sort of contradicted myself and after I posted, I realized I shouldn't have said that.
Reponse 3. I don't know why I'm here to be honest. I came a whle ago because I liked animating and I stopped now, I only come when I'm bored. Because my ego is so big I can't bring myself to believe the mass majority of people on here don't agree with me. I don't watch anime, I don't listen to "punk" music so I can't really relate to most of stickpage like I did 4 years ago. So how else to vent out daily frustration from school and various other events? Bash people on stickpage lolz.

But you said to list my arguement so I will.
In my civics class I had to do a debate on whether children are exactly like their parents when they grow up. I was the oppositionand had to justify why children are more influenced by other things. This although is not in the same context of this debate but rather your arguement saying it is in our genes. Like I said earlier, google the definition of socialization and tell me your thoughts. I don't think that we shape our beliefs around past events that will affect our future predicaments, if that were true people would not be naive and gullible

I ignored most of your posts because you are seemingly unable to understand we have the same thesis and that you keep bashing your own ideal

Quote from Blasphemer

I ignored most of your posts because you are seemingly unable to understand we have the same thesis and that you keep bashing your own ideal

No. You keep saying to an extent, I keep saying we have infinite free will.
We have the ability to do what we please, mind you I'm talking about, thoughts, speech, actions, etc not flying and other impossible abilities.

I am clearly not bashing my own opinon, if I were to do that I'd be saying we have no free will. Here's a tip, stop saying "thesis" when you're posting, this is the INTERNET NOT A ****ING LAB REPORT.

Quote from Socks

Response 1. I didn't mean to direct that to you, more so to Blasphemer who seemed to ignore all my posts.
Response 2. Lol, I sort of contradicted myself and after I posted, I realized I shouldn't have said that.
Reponse 3. I don't know why I'm here to be honest. I came a whle ago because I liked animating and I stopped now, I only come when I'm bored. Because my ego is so big I can't bring myself to believe the mass majority of people on here don't agree with me. I don't watch anime, I don't listen to "punk" music so I can't really relate to most of stickpage like I did 4 years ago. So how else to vent out daily frustration from school and various other events? Bash people on stickpage lolz.

But you said to list my arguement so I will.
In my civics class I had to do a debate on whether children are exactly like their parents when they grow up. I was the oppositionand had to justify why children are more influenced by other things. This although is not in the same context of this debate but rather your arguement saying it is in our genes. Like I said earlier, google the definition of socialization and tell me your thoughts. I don't think that we shape our beliefs around past events that will affect our future predicaments, if that were true people would not be naive and gullible

OK, first off I agree we don't base our decisions solely off our genes/genetic makeup and I never claimed that. I believe it has some relevance, but I also believe that which contributes to our decisions is... well, everything. For instance, the way we are socialized contributes to the decisions you make. I believe that when you're born, you have certain genetic qualities that "make your decisions", as you interact and are socialized, your decisions change to fit in with this. For instance, your genetics may make you more intelligent, therefore when you get an itch (just born), you scratch (whereas some "stupid" babies would just cry). That action to me would not be free will, it would be a decision that you could predict if you knew more than any human could about said baby. However, when the mother stops you scratching, or scolds you (wouldnt happen but only thing I could think of), your brain sees that when you scratch, you get scolded. Therefore the next time you don't. This is how I think our decisions work, and every decision we make is based upon a nearly infinitaly complex (even though there isnt such a thing, I'm trying to represent colossal complexity) chain of events, interactions and previous decisions.

Explain to me how we can have complete free will, scientifically (without ignoring the rest of my post...)

Quote from Automaton

For instance, your genetics may make you more intelligent, therefore when you get an itch (just born), you scratch (whereas some "stupid" babies would just cry). That action to me would not be free will, it would be a decision that you could predict if you knew more than any human could about said baby. However, when the mother stops you scratching, or scolds you (wouldnt happen but only thing I could think of), your brain sees that when you scratch, you get scolded. Therefore the next time you don't. This is how I think our decisions work, and every decision we make is based upon a nearly infinitaly complex (even though there isnt such a thing, I'm trying to represent colossal complexity) chain of events, interactions and previous decisions.

Explain to me how we can have complete free will, scientifically (without ignoring the rest of my post...)

I don't think intellegence is genetics, if so, then why would I be at school? Children only keep their parents as role models until they become teens which is when they care more about peer pressure than what their parents think.
Your baby example is okay, but I think it would be better to just talk about "Training a Dog" I say this because you can praise and scold a dog thus molding them into what you want them to be. Say the dog pees in the house, and you scold him for that. The next day the dog really has to go to pee again, he knows he will get scolded for doing so in the house but what are his other options? He will pee in the house again because the needs of your body come before the needs of your mind, if you don't believe me check out Maslow's Hieiarchy of Needs.

Quote from Socks

I don't think intellegence is genetics, if so, then why would I be at school?

It's scientifically proven there are genes related to how intelligent we are. Obviously, you can't attribute it all to that, a lot of it comes down to how much you learn / try. For instance someone who's a dropout will not be intelligent as someone who actually tries to learn. However, someone who learns but their genes aren't as intelligent as someone else who does the same amount of learning, might turn out fractionally less intelligent.
[edit]
note I don't know much about this, I'm no scientist. But I do know there are genes that can determine intelligence of newborns.

Children only keep their parents as role models until they become teens which is when they care more about peer pressure than what their parents think.

How does this relate to the argument about free will? The argument goes that decisions are based off a multicomplex chain of occurances leading up to the decision point. Nowhere does it say that these have to be based off the parent. I used this as an example to explain the theory. I feel you're not providing any counter-arguments to what I've said.

Your baby example is okay, but I think it would be better to just talk about "Training a Dog" I say this because you can praise and scold a dog thus molding them into what you want them to be. Say the dog pees in the house, and you scold him for that. The next day the dog really has to go to pee again, he knows he will get scolded for doing so in the house but what are his other options? He will pee in the house again because the needs of your body come before the needs of your mind, if you don't believe me check out Maslow's Hieiarchy of Needs.

Again, this doesn't disprove the argument. All it shows is that his decision to pee in the house goes against the scolding, and with good reason, but that doesn't show free will. You could equally say he did this because his body is telling him to go to the toilet, so based off what he knows about going to the toilet, his body responds by choosing the immediate relief over the potential scolding to follow. If you've gota pee, you've gota pee.

i have free will because i choose not to debate that i have free will in this thread.

Quote from Socks

No. You keep saying to an extent, I keep saying we have infinite free will.
We have the ability to do what we please, mind you I'm talking about, thoughts, speech, actions, etc not flying and other impossible abilities.

I am clearly not bashing my own opinon, if I were to do that I'd be saying we have no free will. Here's a tip, stop saying "thesis" when you're posting, this is the INTERNET NOT A ****ING LAB REPORT.

Okay, A - You're dumb as ****. Stop debating if you cant read other peoples posts or if they say complicated words you cant understand.

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say,

HERPADERPADERP YOU CAN FLY AND SHIT BUT UR MIND LIEK WUNT L3T U DUED

You misread my things, because like the arrogant **** you are - You are too caught up in believing you are correct.

We make the most logical choice based on the information presented to us. ALL THE TIME. Every single action is our most logical choice. ME acting ANGRY to YOU is TO ME, WITH THE DATE - AKA INFORMATION stored IN MY BRAIN, THE MOST LOGICAL CHOICE. I'm cap's locking that so you dont mis-read it. No-where down the line did I say.

OH YEAH HURPADERP BY THE WAY YOU CAN FLY LOL

No. I said you learn about gravity. People who try to fly are stopped by gravity. We then note this down in OUR BRAINS as LOGICAL INFORMATION.

Jesus ****ing christ in fact just go back and re-read all my posts; you obviously didn't read them enough or probably just skipped them altogether.

Quote from Socks

Thanks dude.

I was disputing your arguement Automation, this whole "store it in our brain" that's called a memory if you have forgotten. Your understanding of free will is different than mine i suppose.

Your idea of free will seems stupid to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to think free will is having the ability to do things physically possible. Well... durrr... Of course we have the ability to do possible things. Free will is when you choose them based off nothing other than what you think is the right choice at the moment. What not having free will is, is your decisions being made based upon everything that has occured before that point, for instance if you knew all the occurances and geneology of the person, you could predict 100% what the choice would be.

If you think about it, all we are are computers. Imagine a computer that was programmed to take information, store it, and be able to recall it at a later date and make a decision, using a mathematical formula predicting the probability of each outcomes quality. When that computer made a decision in the future, would you call that free will? No, you'd call it a highly complex, but still programmed, answer. You can apply the same logic to us.

Also, inb4 "but were not computers we are self aware blah blah!". I never said that, I was making reference, and everything I referenced can be related directly to humans.