Quote from Smile

Nevermind PM'ing him just post it here.

He still has to ask

Quote from Youwishjellyfish

Strange, I think it and Raptor and Drone say it.

Yo Raptor, it's been two weeks since we talked about Aldnoah.Zero, are you up to date, and if so how do you think it's progressing?

Yeah, I'm up to date. It's pretty good! The pacing doesn't seem as off as I initially thought it would be, it's going down pretty well. There are only a few things that bother me at this point. First, the earth gets a lot more attention that the martians. I guess that's understandable, but I feel like I'm seeing only one side of the story sometimes. Like I see the whole of Earth in peril. What do the martians feel about this? How come I only see the generals? Why do they get such little screen time? At times it seems like its too focused on just Earth and I'm only seeing one side. Plus, it irks me that all the generals are sort of close-minded towards everything. I want there to be some Martians that have any existing characteristics that doesn't make them always seem like assholes besides the protagonist. I also feel that not much character development has happened to the earth protagonist. He seems very monotone and his expressions and feelings don't change. I mean it's pretty preemptive to say at this point, but I don't like it still. Other than that, I enjoy the direction this anime is going so far.

Also, one of my mates (the shounen prat that I've mentioned a few times here) told me last night that Tokyo Ghoul is the best thing since slice bread, I had a good laugh at the mental image of you trying to kill him with a broken beer bottle.

If he says the anime is good, slip spoiled cheese into his sandwhich so he thinks his lunch tastes bad, ruining his day. Also steal one sock out of each pair in his drawer.

If he says the manga is good, then I can agree with him to an extent. It's an interesting setting and, while a bit shounen, is still an interesting read. The development of the protagonist himself is also pretty interesting. I've never seen it done before in quite that fashion, so I'm interested to see how it develops later on. Plus, I really enjoy the gritty jagged lines that the artist uses a lot. His use of shading is also pretty neat and all of his drawings of the kagune look really cool imo. The fight scenes are also well-drawn, and I have confidence that at the very least that is something the studio can animate well.

I still have to admit though, the opening animation and theme of Tokyo Ghoul is really good.

Quote from Jutsu

Hey now, sword art online is acceptable. It's pretty good at some parts, in my opinion. The animation rocks my socks off.

Though the first season ends prematurely and the second season fizzles, because the first season had much higher stakes. So the writing was a bit sloppy.

First season was okay at best, and I will agree that it has great animation. But it pretty much falls flat on its face in every other category and gets even worse as it continues on. It's a lot like Naruto in that aspect. I guess this is also my bias speaking because I am absolutely fucking tired of anime/manga in a video game world. The entire premised never interested me in the beginning, and it sure as hell doesn't interest me after SAO and the thirty million other rip-offs that precede and succeed it.

Youwishjellyfish, you read this too.

Video game worlds to me are just cop out settings to appeal to a broader audience and create "easier" plots by taking elements from an already existing medium. It's boring because there's no originality. In every single one, there's always going to different overworlds, leveling up, putting items in the inventory, so on and so forth. Every single thing from major settings to the little things is from a video game to the point where you feel kind of numb to everything that happens. The development of each character also becomes insanely boring and monotone. Oh, you want to improve? You fucking grind and level-up. No, you don't improve like every other action story where you use your own abilities and creative prowess to combat the enemy. No, you grind, level up and sometimes you learn a god damn new skill, and then voila now you can beat the enemy! It's systematic and a load of shit. Many elements become determined simply on levels, equipment, or skills. It's a shallow and lazy way of comparing the abilities of different characters and it hinders the plot substantially. There's no thrill involved because it no longer feels like the protagonist is special and improves on his own ability via his own training and creativity, it's now controlled by a third, outside element that does the training for him. Not to mention the powers themselves also lack any semblance of creativity too, because they also have to be based off of some fantasy WoW bullshit. Reading video game mangas feels like I'm watching the most boring, stereotypical JRPG cutscene for hours with no playtime. This terrible, awful element mixed with the stereotypical shounen plotlines and/or fanservice characters that you always have makes it even worse to read.
I probably have more stuff to say, but EndRant.

Quote from Raptor

First season was okay at best, and I will agree that it has great animation. But it pretty much falls flat on its face in every other category and gets even worse as it continues on. It's a lot like Naruto in that aspect. I guess this is also my bias speaking because I am absolutely fucking tired of anime/manga in a video game world. The entire premised never interested me in the beginning, and it sure as hell doesn't interest me after SAO and the thirty million other rip-offs that precede and succeed it.

That's fair, I think The Matrix did the virtual world the best and ever since the rip offs don't stack up, especially .hack. You can even see Neo's influence in Kirito's character design, though Kirito is cool and what not he's no Neo, that's for sure.
I don't agree that it's like Naruto though, SAO has way more consistent animation quality than Naruto. SAO never resorted to tracing scenes from Cowboy Bebop the Movie and appears to have the same few animators through the entirety of the show. If you compare Naruto vs Haku to Naruto vs Sasuke on episode 133 "My favorite episode of original Naruto" it's like two different shows entirely.

Quote from Raptor

Video game worlds to me are just cop out settings to appeal to a broader audience and create "easier" plots by taking elements from an already existing medium. It's boring because there's no originality. In every single one, there's always going to different overworlds, leveling up, putting items in the inventory, so on and so forth. Every single thing from major settings to the little things is from a video game to the point where you feel kind of numb to everything that happens. The development of each character also becomes insanely boring and monotone. Oh, you want to improve? You fucking grind and level-up. No, you don't improve like every other action story where you use your own abilities and creative prowess to combat the enemy. No, you grind, level up and sometimes you learn a god damn new skill, and then voila now you can beat the enemy! It's systematic and a load of shit. Many elements become determined simply on levels, equipment, or skills. It's a shallow and lazy way of comparing the abilities of different characters and it hinders the plot substantially. There's no thrill involved because it no longer feels like the protagonist is special and improves on his own ability via his own training and creativity, it's now controlled by a third, outside element that does the training for him. Not to mention the powers themselves also lack any semblance of creativity too, because they also have to be based off of some fantasy WoW bullshit. Reading video game mangas feels like I'm watching the most boring, stereotypical JRPG cutscene for hours with no playtime. This terrible, awful element mixed with the stereotypical shounen plotlines and/or fanservice characters that you always have makes it even worse to read.
I probably have more stuff to say, but EndRant.

I agree with you there brotha, video game world plots are pretty dry, predictable and easy to create.

Here's an interesting question, have you ever seen the greed island arc in HunterXHunter? I know, I know, bringing that show up again. But seriously, it's a video game plot that takes place in their real world. Figure that shit out.
If you've ever seen it, what do you think?

Quote from Drone

He still has to ask

Hey man I'd love to see your must-watch list. I haven't gone through all the one youwish posted for me like a billion years ago yet but I bought a new hard drive and I'm pretty excited to fill it up with stuff.


Also http://www.haruhi.com/

Three more frames before they finally reveal that they're not actually making a new Haruhi season and they're just hyping up the fanbase for a sticker or something.

Quote from Jutsu

I don't agree that it's like Naruto though, SAO has way more consistent animation quality than Naruto. SAO never resorted to tracing scenes from Cowboy Bebop the Movie and appears to have the same few animators through the entirety of the show. If you compare Naruto vs Haku to Naruto vs Sasuke on episode 133 "My favorite episode of original Naruto" it's like two different shows entirely.

I know, I was just making a general comparison of with animes with a high ratio of good animation to bad plot.

Here's an interesting question, have you ever seen the greed island arc in HunterXHunter? I know, I know, bringing that show up again. But seriously, it's a video game plot that takes place in their real world. Figure that shit out.
If you've ever seen it, what do you think?

Well I haven't seen it, I read it. And I liked it a lot, it doesn't have any of the same terrible video game qualities as other manga plots do. Unlike those kinds of plots, Greed Island uses the abilities of the protagonists themselves instead of using a system of leveling up. Hell, a good chunk of the arc was simply them training to become stronger. Plus, the arc takes inspiration from RPG video games but the writers don't add in too much where the whole setting feels like a video game and they give themselves enough room for creativity. The characters use their own, pre-existing abilities to help them solve their problems, and their rewards are more cards that have even more creative abilities that they can keep or use in battle. Each adventure they go on shows the little things about each character and shows how they triumph each challenge with their own abilities. If anything, Greed Island is simply a world where you can used powered cards. Everything else is solely based on your abilities alone. And you don't have the stereotypical RPG skills like Firaga are some shit like that, each ability that the cards had were creative. Greed Island was an excellent arc. I will say that it's not really fair to compare Greed Island with other mangas because the RPG mangas only have that one video game setting whereas Greed Island is simply an arc in a wider world. I would say that I wouldn't be able to stand a whole anime about Greed Island as cool as it is, because by the end of the day if you wanted it to be more creative you'd always have to use the cards as a weapon. Eventually they'd lose ways where you could use each card creatively and I'd start to lose my interest from there.




I'm also taking a look into Claymore, one of my favorite mangas back in the day. I want to see how that transitioned onto the screen. I heard it's pretty good, so I'm expecting to be satisfied.

I personally love the claymore anime. Theresa makes me happy in my pants.

And yeah, greed island isn't technically a video game, but you need a copy of the game and a memory card to play it. And instead of the generic "they're trapped! And if they die in the game *gasp* they die fur real!!", gon is there to look for hints on finding his father. He's interested in beating it instead of just escaping alive. I especially like how he gets mad that everyone is killing each other in his fathers game and resolves to personally enjoy it and have fun.

Not my favorite arc, but quite enjoyable. Especially once Hisoka becomes involved. He's definitely on my top ten anime villains list.

Quote from Raptor

Yeah, I'm up to date. It's pretty good! The pacing doesn't seem as off as I initially thought it would be, it's going down pretty well. There are only a few things that bother me at this point. First, the earth gets a lot more attention that the martians. I guess that's understandable, but I feel like I'm seeing only one side of the story sometimes. Like I see the whole of Earth in peril. What do the martians feel about this? How come I only see the generals? Why do they get such little screen time? At times it seems like its too focused on just Earth and I'm only seeing one side. Plus, it irks me that all the generals are sort of close-minded towards everything. I want there to be some Martians that have any existing characteristics that doesn't make them always seem like assholes besides the protagonist.

Yeah, I fully agree, it's actually one of my biggest problems at the moment, the Knights (or whatever they're called) seem to be racist warmongers for no apparent reason other than they're self centered, elitists who only want to further their own goals. I don't think these are bad qualities for antagonists but they seem very one dimensional at the moment and being evil for the sake of being evil is never fun to watch. I'm keeping in mind that we've only really seen two Knights so far though, so there is still a bit of hope, but I'm not counting on it. But I'm hoping Slaine staying with the Martians gives more opportunities to flesh out the side of this war.

I also feel that not much character development has happened to the earth protagonist. He seems very monotone and his expressions and feelings don't change. I mean it's pretty preemptive to say at this point, but I don't like it still. Other than that, I enjoy the direction this anime is going so far.

Yeah, so far him (and a few other Terrans) really haven't developed much, and I'm surprised that a few side characters have been developed a lot more despite having less screen time. It's showing that the show can develop people effectively, but chooses not to... But I'll reserve judgement until later for that seeing as at the moment he's playing his role pretty well. I am worried about the mecha fight of the week style that's happening, I get that we are having one mecha over two weeks, and the fights are all creative and intelligent, but I honestly don't think this anime's potential lies with it's mecha battles.

I think I'm liking the CG mechas less and less, I didn't mind the first one, and the Terrans mechas look and move alright, but the one in episode 4 and 5 look strange and moved really awkwardly...

The sound track is still amazing though.

If he says the anime is good, slip spoiled cheese into his sandwhich so he thinks his lunch tastes bad, ruining his day. Also steal one sock out of each pair in his drawer.

I still have to admit though, the opening animation and theme of Tokyo Ghoul is really good.

He hasn't read it, I told him to drop the series and pick up the manga. But yeah, I like the OP, I don't think the animation is anything mind blowing, but it's better than the series and the song is really cool and I like listening to it. So it gets points for that I guess.

First season was okay at best, and I will agree that it has great animation. But it pretty much falls flat on its face in every other category and gets even worse as it continues on. It's a lot like Naruto in that aspect.

Ohh, the music was pretty good too, the OP for the airing season is actually pretty kick ass as well. But I like how they took the one strong female character and made her a damsel in distress, oh SAO and your terrible writing.

I guess this is also my bias speaking because I am absolutely fucking tired of anime/manga in a video game world. The entire premised never interested me in the beginning, and it sure as hell doesn't interest me after SAO and the thirty million other rip-offs that precede and succeed it.

Name drop of it didn't happen, I honestly can't think of that many 'trapped in a game' anime, really, I got .hack..SIGN, SAO, and Log Horizon. Even then, anime set in a game is still limited to those and Accel World and No Game No Life. So please, enlighten me to these millions of rip-offs. (Again, coming from an anime only perspective lol)

Video game worlds to me are just cop out settings to appeal to a broader audience and create "easier" plots by taking elements from an already existing medium. It's boring because there's no originality. In every single one, there's always going to different overworlds, leveling up, putting items in the inventory, so on and so forth. Every single thing from major settings to the little things is from a video game to the point where you feel kind of numb to everything that happens. The development of each character also becomes insanely boring and monotone. Oh, you want to improve? You fucking grind and level-up. No, you don't improve like every other action story where you use your own abilities and creative prowess to combat the enemy. No, you grind, level up and sometimes you learn a god damn new skill, and then voila now you can beat the enemy! It's systematic and a load of shit. Many elements become determined simply on levels, equipment, or skills. It's a shallow and lazy way of comparing the abilities of different characters and it hinders the plot substantially. There's no thrill involved because it no longer feels like the protagonist is special and improves on his own ability via his own training and creativity, it's now controlled by a third, outside element that does the training for him. Not to mention the powers themselves also lack any semblance of creativity too, because they also have to be based off of some fantasy WoW bullshit. Reading video game mangas feels like I'm watching the most boring, stereotypical JRPG cutscene for hours with no playtime. This terrible, awful element mixed with the stereotypical shounen plotlines and/or fanservice characters that you always have makes it even worse to read.
I probably have more stuff to say, but EndRant.

I honestly don't see how anything you described is limited to "in a game" and not other terribly written stories. Different over-worlds = transported to a different dimension/alternative reality, leveling up = bleach style training montage, items in inventory = finding objects necessary for your quest (fuck, this on is a trope in nearly all fantasy/sci-fi quests, it's pretty much in Star Wars). You talk like dues ex machina level ups are exclusive to the 'in a game' genre, they're not, you speak like only fomulatic story telling is present in the 'in a game' genre, it's not, you speak like grinding and improving against monster/whatever is any different than training, it's not, you talk like the protagonist doesn't have to do anything while doing they're equivalent of training, yet they do, you talk like 'in a game' special moves are bland compared to other genres, but they're just a generic.

You are calling out a genre for being terrible when it isn't the genre that's bad, it's the writing, and that is definitely not only found in the 'in a game' genre. In fact, almost nothing you said applies to Log Horizon, .hack//SIGN (though that has it's own bundle of issues), Accel World (which also has it's fair share of issues), or NGNL... The genre may be filled with shit, but I really don't see how that's the genre's fault, get mad at the artists.

Generally the best villains are the ones who, from a certain perspective, are not like villains.

EDIT: Goddamnit, Jellyfish ninja'd me. Hold on while I make a response.

Quote from Raptor

Generally the best villains are the ones who, from a certain perspective, are not like villains.

Yeah it seems to me he's part time anti hero.

He's got his own agenda to cultivate or find the strongest and defeat them, that's how he finds pleasure. Which to me, is a great motivation for a villain.

Quote from Youwishjellyfish

Name drop of it didn't happen, I honestly can't think of that many 'trapped in a game' anime, really, I got .hack..SIGN, SAO, and Log Horizon. Even then, anime set in a game is still limited to those and Accel World and No Game No Life. So please, enlighten me to these millions of rip-offs. (Again, coming from an anime only perspective lol)

Not anime, manga. There's a lot of mangas that aren't anime yet, but they're pretty awful. Like in the past two weeks or so I found two mangas with video game elements in them and they were pretty boring. I can't name drop them because I don't remember what they were called because as soon as I realized what it was about a noped the fuck out of there (exaggeration, I did give them a chance, but they were still boring).

I honestly don't see how anything you described is limited to "in a game" and not other terribly written stories. Different over-worlds = transported to a different dimension/alternative reality, leveling up = bleach style training montage, items in inventory = finding objects necessary for your quest (fuck, this on is a trope in nearly all fantasy/sci-fi quests, it's pretty much in Star Wars). You talk like dues ex machina level ups are exclusive to the 'in a game' genre, they're not, you speak like only fomulatic story telling is present in the 'in a game' genre, it's not, you speak like grinding and improving against monster/whatever is any different than training, it's not, you talk like the protagonist doesn't have to do anything while doing they're equivalent of training, yet they do, you talk like 'in a game' special moves are bland compared to other genres, but they're just a generic.

If my point came out anything like this type of degenerate, boring plot line only exists in game worlds, that's not what I'm trying to say and I guess I didn't really emphasize that enough. This is just what a lot of RPG mangas I've seen turn into, and why they become so boring in the end. There is one thing that exists in game worlds that don't exist in other plot lines that's really terrible for the story, and that's the concept of levels and leveling up to become more powerful. I've already expounded upon the point above, so I won't delve into it too much.

You are calling out a genre for being terrible when it isn't the genre that's bad, it's the writing, and that is definitely not only found in the 'in a game' genre. In fact, almost nothing you said applies to Log Horizon, .hack//SIGN (though that has it's own bundle of issues), Accel World (which also has it's fair share of issues), or NGNL... The genre may be filled with shit, but I really don't see how that's the genre's fault, get mad at the artists.

I'm sure it's not always bad, but imo I think the more a video game anime/manga strays away from a RPG setting, the better it becomes.

I've never watched Log Horizon or .hack so I can't comment. Accel World I haven't watched either (I think it's on my to watch list somewhere), but I thought it was more like a virtual reality world more than a video game based on what I heard, but I'm not sure. NGNL I definitely wouldn't call a video game world. It's a different world in of itself where things are judged by simple games they play on each other. It's a separate world governed by different laws. It isn't like a video game setting at all in my opinion.

Hey Jelly, post one good example of that anime genre and then I'll agree that it isn't the genre that's shit.

Quote from Raptor

Not anime, manga.

I know lol, I'm just throwing jabs at ya.

If my point came out anything like this type of degenerate, boring plot line only exists in game worlds, that's not what I'm trying to say and I guess I didn't really emphasize that enough.

It more came across that 'because it's a game world it's boring', which I disagree with seeing as it's the writers inability to create something interesting and to avoid pit falls that make a story boring. It's very likely the 'in a game' genre currently suffers from people seeing an easy cash grab much like how people used to (and still do I guess) see the moe slice of life genre.

NGNL I definitely wouldn't call a video game world. It's a different world in of itself where things are judged by simple games they play on each other. It's a separate world governed by different laws. It isn't like a video game setting at all in my opinion.

Yeah, it's probably wrong to say it's a 'in a game' anime, though I don't see what's so different about game mechanics and a world governed by different natural laws, one is made by a programmer and the other a eccentric God, is it really so different?

Quote from Jutsu

Hey Jelly, post one good example of that anime genre and then I'll agree that it isn't the genre that's shit.

Trapped in a game - Greed Island arc from HxH, Btooom (despite is being unfinished).
Trapped in a video game - Log Horizon (even if it's a bit childish).

But you've masterfully missed my point once again. I also can't help but think your request is silly considering there are only three 'trapped in a video game' anime out at the moment, or at least only three to the best of my knowledge, maybe you'd like to enlighten me to all the oh so terrible 'trapped in a video game' anime that currently exist.

.hack
any of them


I don't understand why every single one of your posts in here has to be a wall of text, when you could communicate things much more simply. It isn't like your dissecting entire anime either, just rambling.

I've only seen //sigh, and I've been told that's the only one that's 'trapped in a game', but I'll agree with you.

So you're 1 for 3 in franchises.

Or are we no longer talking about 'trapped in a game' anime like SAO and just talking about 'in a game'?

In most .hack series they end up trapped in it at the cost of their own lives. You could say .hack did it before SAO.