Quote from Skeletonxf

You won't have to run back if you're chasing a chaos player who is trying to retreat a lost battle.

If your troops are spread out, then just group them together. It's as easy as pressing the space key and right clicking. I get the impression you are simply not using your own abilities to order units in the game and mis-interpreting balance as a result.

Also, you're doing something wrong if you're not buying waters. A water used to heal a single tier 2 unit is more cost efficient than buying the unit again, provided you have the water heal upgrade. There's no excuse to not be buying waters by the time Medusa can come out, and if you can't afford to buy the cheapest support unit ele has then you're probably already playing a match as such a disadvantage that you've already lost.

As I have already said, most of the time the waters are used up in the battle. Naturally, I will have trained more, but it won't usually reach in time on med/long maps.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

As I have already said, most of the time the waters are used up in the battle. Naturally, I will have trained more, but it won't usually reach in time on med/long maps.

Why are you not stockpiling the waters?
You don't usually fight such heavily damaging to your army fights in less than every 24 seconds.

I use 3 waters. Losing them to heal my troops in actual battle is heavily damaging to me? And by what do you mean " less than every 24 seconds? "

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

I use 3 waters. Losing them to heal my troops in actual battle is heavily damaging to me? And by what do you mean " less than every 24 seconds? "

Maybe he means you shouldn't get so damaged (so damaged you need waters) in battles that are less than 24 seconds, I'm not completely sure.

What you're saying doesn't make sense, you're chasing a retreating chaos army, but then you have to run back? You don't have to worry about your units being spread out, just micro. Just because you're neglecting micro doesn't mean that the pool is overpowered.

The Elementals can reach tier 2 and 3 very quickly, you can rush in charrogs and fires, and even make infernos in less than 5 minutes if you play your cards right. Chaos usually makes a ton of juggs and deads/eclipsors (which takes a while) before making any mages. If you gave the Chaos player time to make mages, you might be missing something in your strategy.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

I use 3 waters. Losing them to heal my troops in actual battle is heavily damaging to me? And by what do you mean " less than every 24 seconds? "

A water has a 12 second queue time.

Unless you are fighting loads (and probably at times when you are at a disadvantage), you'll have something of a break between heavily damaging battles. The fact that you say you use 3 waters only highlights my point, you will have time to get a stock of water units between fights you have to commit to.

As for why you're then losing the fights, nutsophast has already covered that just above this post of mine.

I am requesting that you please stop replying to only parts of my post, and reply to what I fully said. When I said you will have to run back, I also mentioned pressuring. It is hard to force your opponent to garrison,and maybe pick of a miner, when doing so will result in your being heavily poisoned, and forcing you to sacrifice a water to heal. Everyone has their way of fighting, and I prefer a healthy army towards an army of low health. The point of upgrading or downgrading is not so that the other armies are more weaker or powerful. It is to make things more even. That said, the downgrading of the venom flux should not revolve solely around how I choose to play.
Anyways here are my thoughts on what to do. They are not a personal attack on anyone, they are my opinion.

1. Decrease Venom flux staying time and/or change so it does not affect air units.
2. Increase Archidon fire arrow delay time and/or increase price to get it.
3. Decrease Vastolis burn effect

Wait Wait Wait

I just want to comment on one thing

Venom flux is fine leave it alone :)

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

I am requesting that you please stop replying to only parts of my post, and reply to what I fully said. When I said you will have to run back, I also mentioned pressuring. It is hard to force your opponent to garrison,and maybe pick of a miner, when doing so will result in your being heavily poisoned, and forcing you to sacrifice a water to heal. Everyone has their way of fighting, and I prefer a healthy army towards an army of low health. The point of upgrading or downgrading is not so that the other armies are more weaker or powerful. It is to make things more even. That said, the downgrading of the venom flux should not revolve solely around how I choose to play.
Anyways here are my thoughts on what to do. They are not a personal attack on anyone, they are my opinion.

1. Decrease Venom flux staying time and/or change so it does not affect air units.
2. Increase Archidon fire arrow delay time and/or increase price to get it.
3. Decrease Vastolis burn effect

I have tried to reply to everything you have fully said each time. At times I simply have had nothing to add to reasons of yours based on others that I have refuted.

That first bolded thing there is your problem. A preference as to how you like to fight is not the meta. You're going to have to learn to fight with heavily weakened armies at times, or you will lose matches because of it.

The second bolded thing I don't even know why you've put. Everyone here wants balance as much as possible, it's just that I, as many others, think that your suggestions for balance are not good balance.

Any nerfs or buffs would best apply to the highest level of gameplay, so that when both players are 100%ing everything they can, no one 'wins' by game mechanics. Base nerfs or buffs of a lower standard of skill, and higher skill players find something abusable that has no counter. This comes back to what I said earlier about fighting on fully healthy armies. That tactic is not the highest level of play and balancing around lower levels of play makes the game far less varied / dynamic at higher levels of play.

Medusa can only venom flux where she is standing. Hence you cannot venon flux the opponent's back line with Medusa unless you are winning the fight so much you can walk her in freely - by that point it's probably game, you've won and venom flux is negligible.

1. Chaos needs venom flux to retreat without taking loads of arrows in the face. Late game, order can run after Chaos Giants as much as they want, and Medusa is too slow a spell caster to fall back. Chaos needs venom flux in order to disengage. Take it away completely and Chaos is screwed late game. Obviously you aren't saying to take it away, but I'm making a point about how badly Chaos relies on it late game.
2. Flying units needing to pass over venom flux is a scenario that's pretty unlikely to happen any time but when Chaos is retreating. (See above).
3. Archidon fire arrows add fairly negligible damage late and mid game, and rarely see any use. Nerfing them would just further make the upgrade not worth getting unless people are trying to archer siege - in which case their strength currently helps close out decided games, so this nerf would just waste everyone's time.
4. Vastolis's burn effect is pretty negligible when the meteor strike alone can wipe out a near infinite number of archidons. Your nerf wouldn't hit the main issue with it.
5. That venom flux will not be placed on top of a backline unless the game is already decided (see above)
a. Hence Order and Ele can choose whether to chase Chaos over the line
b. Order can punish a retreating Chaos via archidons a lot
c. Ele can punish a retreating Chaos via fires and scorplings a lot
d. Both opposing empires can gain lots from a retreating Chaos that does not want to get attacked as it retreats
e. This gain is given consequence via the venom flux pool
f. Order cannot really chase over it with archers unless very close to base or with loads of merics
g. Ele can chase over it as long as it has a water
h. I said before chasing over venom flux will only be a good choice when Chaos wants to retreat
i. Hence Ele can punish Chaos despite the venom flux as long as it has a water
j. If ele made Chaos want to retreat, Chaos is weakened, Ele probably won the skirmish or fight
k. Ele should therefore have a reasonably healthy army (or Chaos would have carried on attacking)
m. Ele can also heal its army while removing the poison if the water is killed off just after the whole army walks over the pool
n. The whole army can walk over the pool together with micro
o. Provided Ele has a water, Ele will be able to chase chaos over the pool with next to no issue if Chaos is retreating from a lost fight. If Chaos hasn't lost a fight, Chaos wouldn't want to retreat (remember this is late game)
p. Ele versus Venom flux goes to Ele's favor (though not much else EvC does, but this is besides the point)
q. Order can chase Chaos over the pool with albows if it has merics.
r. Albows are too slow to chase Chaos for much distance
s. Order gains very little from going over the pool with Albows or Archers
t. Order is therefore inclined to keep its main dps core back from a Chaos retreating with Venom flux
u. Order has merics late game
v. Order will gain lots of hp from just standing still after the fight with Chaos
w. Order might not be able to punish Chaos for running by killing Chaos's units, but is able to heal up better than Chaos can in this gap between the next fight
x. Order still has ways to deal with the pool to aid it after a retreating Chaos veom flux
y. Order can also run ninjas past the pool to kill retreating units and the ninjas can tank the poison for long enough to return and heal without dying
z. Ele and Order can still gain from a venom flux used to force a retreat from Chaos
6. Venom flux does not give Chaos 100% free retreat, and already has plenty of counters and ways of continuing past it.

So with that out the way, it comes down to a simple question. Is the current duration of the venom flux the right amount to allow Chaos ample semi-retreat without giving Chaos too long of a semi-retreat?
From my own matches, and even some video commentaries of high skill level tourneys from Wyz, I'd actually say it's probably a bit too long. It works just right in balancing as a retreat, but lasts longer than that retreat will take.

im suggesting that we add Armor Names.

Like . Squid Marrowkai Helm.
Squid Scale Juggernaught Helm,Shield,Axe.
Volcano Spearton Helm,Shield,Axe
Robin Hood Archidon Helm,his back thingy.


And Other Thing is Add Like This

Squid Skin Juggernaught Axe - +3 Damages
Squid Skin Juggernaught Shield - + 2 Damages _ +3 Seconds Stun _ +5 Defense
Robin hood Archidon Helm - +3 Defense
Flame Magikill Staff [The Animated] - +3 Damages _ +3 Flame Damage _ +1 Venom Damage _ +5 Seconds electric Wall
Flame Shadowrath Stick - +1/2 Damage _ +2 Flame Damage
Flame shadowrath Helm - +2 Defense
Flame Shadowrath Sword - +2 Damages _ +1 Flame Damages

items shouldn't give any boosts in battle
so OlePw stop that suggestion :C

Look familiar to me... idk? http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?89617-Hey-This-is-My-Suggestion?

Copy/paste for the win, it's really a terrible idea, if you want weapons with stats go to some RPG game. Also, get reked kaito.

As a suggestion, maybe we should be able to use coins to play as certain empires, like Chaos you could play as them without a membership, but it would cost like 200 or something coins to play 1 or 3 games, because most players want to try out other races, and they might not be sure about getting a membership until they can see how the races work, just a suggestion.

Quote from XedRampage

As a suggestion, maybe we should be able to use coins to play as certain empires, like Chaos you could play as them without a membership, but it would cost like 200 or something coins to play 1 or 3 games, because most players want to try out other races, and they might not be sure about getting a membership until they can see how the races work, just a suggestion.

Quote from Drizzle

Didnt they already have 5 tries to play chaos empire already?

Guess 5 trials wasn't enough... >>

That reminds me. Does anyone know if Chaos Campaign is going to cost money or be free? >>