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Is God good?

Started by: alive | Replies: 133 | Views: 7,998

alive
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Oct 25, 2012 12:01 AM #768243
Good evening, stickpagians. Long time no see, I guess. There's already a thread on here about whether an omnipotent being can be called malevolent, and that thread, plus some shit I've been thinking about, prompted me to make this. I know there has been an influx in religious threads here lately, but in my opinion that's a good thing. Existential questions relate to basic ideas of what it means to be human, and if that does not interest you, then what the fuck? So let's get on with this, shall we?

I too wonder if God is good, but I don't mean a generalized omnipotent deity, I mean God specifically. Not necessarily the christian God, because I think my questions apply to most religions, though I assume most of the religious dudes here are christian, so I'll use Christianity as my basis. If you belong to another religion and want to answer my questions, please do, and I'll try to reply to the best of my knowledge. Furthermore, I want to base this shit on our main source of religious understanding: the scriptures. I want to know if you think God, as presented in the Bible, is good or bad, and why. It seems to me that pretty much all religious people agree that their God is good and benevolent, while many of the basic concepts in religion, even heaven or paradise, seem morally dubious to me. I wonder where this disparity comes from. How do you equate the image you have of God to the God presented in the Bible?

oh, also: it's easy to find examples of God being kind of a dick in the old testament, so let's ignore that, unless it seems especially relevant.
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Oct 25, 2012 1:07 AM #768298
god is good. god is great. god is awesome. * ∞
Highly_Scented
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Oct 25, 2012 2:39 AM #768369
Quote from alive


oh, also: it's easy to find examples of God being kind of a dick in the old testament, so let's ignore that, unless it seems especially relevant.


You're an idiot. "Hey guys, is God good? Also, please ignore all of the bad things he's done while discussing it".
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Oct 25, 2012 2:53 AM #768392
hey, he said "unless it seems especially relevant"!
so its quite relevant, thus the oldt is incloooded
alive
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Oct 25, 2012 3:59 AM #768453
Quote from Highly_Scented
You're an idiot. "Hey guys, is God good? Also, please ignore all of the bad things he's done while discussing it".


Bah.

No, you misunderstand. "All of the bad things he's done" are not exclusively in the old testament, there are plenty of examples of cruel shit from the new testament as well. The old testament is written in a different context from the new testament, with a different audience in mind. There is an even bigger distance to our time. Thus, I'm not really interested in the same quotations that has been repeated a hundred times before, showing how God does some real bastard move, according to our oh so enlightened modern morals. Of course he does, this is a text written more than 2000 years before women even got the right to vote. While it could be cool to debate with an Israelite tribesleader from the good old days, it's not really worthwhile to pretend we are doing so now. I'm more interested in the basic tenets, as they are generally preached and upheld today, with a basis in scripture.

you are relentless, 2-D.
Exile
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Oct 25, 2012 2:34 PM #768845
Quote from alive
I want to know if you think God, as presented in the Bible, is good or bad, and why.


So, what's the difference between this topic and the "Is god evil?" thread? There are people in that section describing their beliefs, including why they think god is good, so I don't see the point here.

I'm inclined to just close the thread, but I'll wait for a response first.
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Oct 25, 2012 9:44 PM #769164
lol i was thinking the same thing but i didn't think anyone would have given a shit
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Oct 25, 2012 9:45 PM #769166
well, I was wondering whether to just post this as an aside in that thread or not, but it seemed to be going in a different way altogether. There are several differences, in my opinion. First of all, the other thread is about a generalized omnipotent deity. The question is, "If we assume an omnipotent deity does exist, is it fair to say this deity is malevolent?" This is basically an exclusion of actual religion, because it means we cannot really take into account any religious scriptures, as they are not necessarily representational for the hypothetical omnipotent being. However, as I have tried to point out, the scriptures and their representation of God is exactly what I am interested in. I don't so much care for a hypothetical, generalized version of God, but the God people actually claim to believe in.
Furthermore, I am not interested in an indirect discussion of the question, for example through attempting to judge the state of the world, because that seems like quite a meaningless endeavor to me. I'm interested in the basic tenets as they are represented in the scriptures and quite universally agreed upon, because some of them seem morally problematic. It feels like I've explained this a few times now, so I'll go with an example: the concept of heaven.

Most Christians believe in heaven. They believe that after we die, we are judged by God, and if we have behaved like the best of gentlemen in life we are let into paradise, where there is free wi-fi everywhere. Some also believe in hell, that bastardly place of eternal torture, where we are punished if we haven't behaved quite as gentlemanly. Now, the concept of hell seems to be so unambiguously evil to me that it baffles me how decent people can think it is right. Torture is illegal in many countries in the world, and should be illegal everywhere. Eternal torture seems like a small breach of human (soul?) rights. For this reason many christians have in fact discarded hell, and instead believe only in heaven. This still includes eternal judgement however, and is still unethical, because eternal exclusion from paradise can be compared to a hell in itself. Of course, the ground God's judgements are made on also seems morally shaky, I.E. the common, "what about this cute, nice little girl, who by the way is not baptized, how can you not let her into paradise?"
Image

Seriously man, look at her, trying to eat that giant ring or some shit. You gotta let her in.


For the record, this entire heaven argument would be meaningless in that other thread, because a generalized omnipotent deity has nothing to do with heaven.
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Oct 26, 2012 2:28 PM #769662
Alright, fair enough. I'm just worried most people won't see the difference between the topics. There are already references to scripture in the other thread, since anyone who's religious is going to have a hard time separating the non-specific concept of "omnipotent deity" with what they already believe.

But, let's see how it plays out.
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Oct 26, 2012 2:47 PM #769671
Alright, so the christian god, Jahve right? Well...

In heaven, everyone is supposed to be happy, but what if you can't be happy without your family and the rest of your family (and most of the population in the world) is burning in hell, forever. How can you be happy and love god while knowing this? (Unless in heaven, you don't have free will or proper judgement on things, in which case the point of giving man free will in the first place would have been pointless and malicious.) And in general a god who creates things just to torture the majority of them seems kind of like a cosmic douchebag and not the malevolent entity he makes himself out to be. "Worship me or I'll fuck you up!" Then you do and he goes: "Oh yes, I spared you from my wrath. I am a merciful god indeed."

Also, Jesus seems to contradict his own teachings by saying this: Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
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Oct 26, 2012 2:50 PM #769676
look at the number of good people and evil people....
so it will not munch go to heaven
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Oct 30, 2012 8:59 PM #773705
Your debate is very useless...

God, made the world the perfect place for us to live in peace.
But then we, wanted more and did the one thing God did not want us to do. (Adam and Eve)
Then God punished us for our sins.

Our world could still be perfect and awesome. If we all work together!
But it is not God that makes us suffer. It is the problems you and other people gives.
We pollute, steal, murder, swear and make the world a living hell for everybody around us!

If we all could behave, then we all would be 100 happy!
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Oct 30, 2012 9:10 PM #773711
Quote from Lian Avenant
Your debate is very useless...

God, made the world the perfect place for us to live in peace.
But then we, wanted more and did the one thing God did not want us to do. (Adam and Eve)
Then God punished us for our sins.

Our world could still be perfect and awesome. If we all work together!
But it is not God that makes us suffer. It is the problems you and other people gives.
We pollute, steal, murder, swear and make the world a living hell for everybody around us!

If we all could behave, then we all would be 100 happy!

Yea it's not like there are things like disease, birth defects or natural disasters. Those don't exist right?

Regarding Adam and Eve:
Quote from Exilement
I've never understood why God put the tree of knowledge in Eden in the first place. Or why he didn't notice the fucking devil trying to trick Eve into eating from it.

Or why God wanted humans to lack any awareness in the first place. He was happy when Adam and Eve were literally incapable of thinking for themselves, and once they ate from the tree of knowledge, he condemned the entire human race for eternity because of it.

But someone a few pages back was basically asking, what'd be the purpose to life if everything was perfect all the time? That's more or less what God wanted. If things were his way, we'd be clueless minions to God's will without any capacity to think for ourselves.


Not that genesis should be taken literally. But still, it's a fucked up story.


Read the thread before posting, instead of just coming in here with your fingers in your ears blathering about how right you are and how this discussion is pointless.
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Oct 30, 2012 9:40 PM #773748
Well There Is a Heads and tails on this Question. God Tests the faith of mankind. If you Read the Hebrew Bible God Made a Bet With the Devil. the Bet was that god can Screw over one of his/her worshipers and that worshiper would still devote his/her faith into god and to be honest i don't believe in god. God Sent wave after wave of disasters to see how long the human race could stand. But in all his/her effort we still proved him/Her Wrong. Also, God Created Justin Bebier so he/she might be Evil. But that's just my View On god.
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Dec 12, 2012 3:05 PM #814845
The answer to the question, assuming the common western protestant Yaweh, is no.

The fundamental concept of embedding a tendency in humans and punishing them for following that tendency is complete and utter evil. It's like if I condition a child to yell every time he sees a black person for his first 10 years, and then start torturing him because "He has free will".
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