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Order is it fair?

Started by: xanderman222222 | Replies: 67 | Views: 3,544

jli

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Jun 30, 2013 2:33 PM #1023148
Quote from 300noob
lol, wyzdm... not to be rude...but...throw ya demonstration outta window mate, until ya can find someone same lvl in skill, then ya can talk
xander, ya have no clue about order.

btw, they're fair...the way they are now, change more would only result in more complaints about the balance thingy.


...You're stupid.

Although yes, I would agree with WyzDM. Order is indeed slightly better now.
Maxchiang .
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Jun 30, 2013 2:40 PM #1023153
Quote from BuddyLucky2

Bombers (Protected) can simply destroy a order player's ability to pressure with archidons because these poor weak men can't even survive bombers without a wall (This means that bombers force order players to be defensive WHICH allows for Chaos turtle if you fail to cap the center)


Bombers? Thats cute, let me introduce you to my 3/4 archers and their superb sniper skills, dubbed "kiting"
_Ai_
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Jun 30, 2013 2:42 PM #1023157
Quote from Maxchiang .
Bombers? Thats cute, let me introduce you to my 3/4 archers and their superb sniper skills, dubbed "kiting"


And 'seperating'.
WheresMyCheetos
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Jun 30, 2013 3:33 PM #1023183
Quote from WyzDM
Tbh I think Order is the stronger empire now. If you don't believe me I will be demonstrating it soon.


It is true all they honestly need to do is do the 1 sword 2 miner start do the usual stall thing and get a spearton within the first 3 minutes.
Wings might be evil to a lot of order players but think a simple spearton archer mass can win because you don't require much mana.
For chaos make bombers? Lets make 6, that's 450$ make less and probably not 1 will break through and we have wasted time to get juggerknights being their military that will last (not blow up in 3 seconds) will be stronger. Just add a super uber wall archers have bombers checked now. But as many have said I do think a buff for chaos would be appropriate
BuddyLucky2
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Jun 30, 2013 9:05 PM #1023335
Tbh I regret my original attack on Chaos due to the fact that it gave me more "Stupidity Points"

Reason + My Lesson + My Suggestion:
1.I don't believe the Developers see us as good idea makers (Especially if we rant) :/, and we are usually ignored.
2.I understand why we are ignored, Example from my "Chaos is it fair" thread was unnecessary rantings of 14 year old (However we really did need that Eclipsor and Bomber Nerf imo).
3.So my suggestion is to stop asking for changes and just wait and see for what the Awesome Developers have in store for us. :D

In other words from my personal experience of stupidity, Please don't rant like I did...Don't make my mistake xanderman.
xanderman222222
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Jun 30, 2013 9:43 PM #1023351
Quote from BuddyLucky2
Tbh I regret my original attack on Chaos due to the fact that it gave me more "Stupidity Points"

Reason + My Lesson + My Suggestion:
1.I don't believe the Developers see us as good idea makers (Especially if we rant) :/, and we are usually ignored.
2.I understand why we are ignored, Example from my "Chaos is it fair" thread was unnecessary rantings of 14 year old (However we really did need that Eclipsor and Bomber Nerf imo).
3.So my suggestion is to stop asking for changes and just wait and see for what the Awesome Developers have in store for us. :D

In other words from my personal experience of stupidity, Please don't rant like I did...Don't make my mistake xanderman.


hmm.... ok,somebody lock this please. Although i think eclipsor health should be buffed just a tiny bit.
awesomebloc
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Jun 30, 2013 9:54 PM #1023357
Lower crawler training time and cost ? :/
isgood

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Jun 30, 2013 10:18 PM #1023373
the problem is that some order units are extremely weak against chaos, while others fair pretty strong against chaos. You need really good sword micro to efficiently use swords against chaos, making it hard to use them, and shadowraths, who can't do anything to any chaos unit. On the other hand, archers are really powerful against chaos
funnyfingers
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Jul 1, 2013 1:56 AM #1023459
what the heck does nerf mean?
xanderman222222
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Jul 1, 2013 2:07 AM #1023465
Quote from funnyfingers
what the heck does nerf mean?


Decrease its power or lower its ablities.
300noob
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Jul 1, 2013 2:25 AM #1023473
Quote from jli
...You're stupid.

Although yes, I would agree with WyzDM. Order is indeed slightly better now.


Oh, I'm stupid alright, I can't even remember my real name, my birthday or where I live in. But, what does that make you for insulting a noob, a mentally handicapped, heh?
Right, so don't insult.
Back on topic.
Swordwraths with rage they rape, yes. But, Crawler with upgrade, they even more so rape.
Archidon kiting? only work well with none upgraded and none armored that is not faster then them.
Spearton effectiveness in tanking? Please, they're not as powerful as the juggerknight.
Shadowrath instant kill? Ehhh...Nope, they're not to Medusa & Marrowkai...and Giant (obviously), Jugger Knight (still a bit obvious), Eclipsor (too freaking obvious), even freaking Deads.
Meric healing and curing? They are overwhelmed with the ammount of patients they have to deal with. Buy more of them so they can work effectively? Then less offensive units to deal the damage and tank the damage.
Oh so OP Magikill? Ehh...a bunch of Jugger Knight/ 1 Medusa...
Enslaved giant being ranged...yet they have less health so less tanking value and they can't stun multiple enemies, they will need to be put on frontline for their tankiness to work so...ranged is nothing.
Albowtross? Slow in both training time and flight speed, easily overwhelmed by Eclipsors.

You want to deal the blow? I gave you the blow.

It is relatively balanced. So don't complain when you lose. I know I don't, only a bit mad but I can live with it.
Nyarlathotep

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Jul 1, 2013 2:59 AM #1023490
Swordwrath: 25 more than the crawler, double its health and much stronger attack power. I don't see rage used against me vs a high level player (and for good reason). Rage is a lot less effective vs chaos for one simple reason. Bombers. Of course, these bombers can't be nearly as effective if the order player is half decent at microing his units.

Archer: A ranged unit you can buy EARLY ON. This is a very important factor in any game, as they provide a lot of damage to both eclipsors and other archers. Now, one might argue that deads have more health and can poison, but when you have spears they can simply target them until death. Now if juggers do that to archers they can simply run away. Vs a Jugger/Eclipsor build the archers are able to shoot the Eclipsors because they are far more exposed than the archers (because they are in the air)

Speartons: Arguably more strong than a Juggerknight for one reason. Shield Wall. A 40% damage reduction from all types of attack is very powerful. And the shield bash is very helpful because it has the longest stun in the game (a full 5 seconds). Otherwise the same as a Juggerknight.

Merics: Much, much, MUCH better than the passive heal. An instant cure/heal is a lot better than the puny amount of health the passive heal provides. Its only noticeable early on with crawlers. The poison heal is very good, I can give it that. HOWEVER, it takes about 15-20 seconds for the poison to heal. Meaning your mage poison nearly OHKOs Eclipsors and will certainly OHKO them if you hit them with poison twice (even if they are still poisoned). The meric, however heals posion instantly and heals large amounts of health. Multiple merics can heal any unit from a ghastly wound and make them combat-ready in under a minute. Chaos on the other hand will have to run back to the safety of our castle walls and wait minutes for a unit like a juggerknight to be healed from near death to full health.

Magikill: All three of the magikill's spells are very very powerful and a death sentence to any chaos player. Mage poison is the bane of our flyers and gives Speartons a huge edge over Juggerknights. Charge a mage? Prepare to lose a 1/3 of your health to an electric wall while being attacked by spears and archers. The obvious answer would be a medusa right? Well, when you see a medusa it can stone one unit and then its basically a sitting duck. Mass poison you say? Mage poison kills faster and hits both your armors and your flyers. The medusa also doesn't have any fancy spells like the mage does. FAR less versatile. A marrowkai can *maybe* get the mage far enough up so that your armors can safely charge it, but then it too is a sitting duck. Hell fists may do a fair amount of damage, but its not AoE like Blast, Electric wall, or posion spray. It travels in a straight line in a very short space. Sure it can OHKO an archer but it can hit maybe 3 max and your archers can just run back to avoid it.

Ninjas: With the recent update Ninjas can near OHKO Medusas and Marrowkai. One might argue that a Medusa can kill a ninja after if Shinobi II's it. But then it has wasted its Stone face ability on a ninja! Medusa cannot die by poison, BUT, one or two hits from almost any attack can kill it after a Shinboi II. A marrowkai however WILL die by the poison of Shinobi II and cannot OHKO the ninja like a Medusa can. If one has multiple ninjas they can simply kill a medusa before it is even able to do anything of use. They are also capable of strong melee combat.

Albowtross: Useless in Order vs Chaos. Don't use them unless you like to be overwhelmed by Eclipsors. to quote Galeforce:

Quote from Galeforce
Albowtross may be better on paper, but eclipsors are better in practically every way.


Eclipsors are faster, cheaper, and quicker to build. Albows do more damage, but you will never get enough to counter chaos's air force. And besides.. bombers.

Enslaved Giants: They have slightly less health but do exponentially more damage when used right. Chaos giants are basically a big wall. Order giants are a big moving wall that shoots big stunning projectiles that do massive damage and bonus damage vs armored units.

This is my take on things, feel free to point out any flaws in my logic. But PLEASE think before you ask a stupid question.

Quote from 300noob
Oh, I'm stupid alright, I can't even remember my real name, my birthday or where I live in. But, what does that make you for insulting a noob, a mentally handicapped, heh?
Right, so don't insult.
Back on topic.
Swordwraths with rage they rape, yes. But, Crawler with upgrade, they even more so rape.
Archidon kiting? only work well with none upgraded and none armored that is not faster then them.
Spearton effectiveness in tanking? Please, they're not as powerful as the juggerknight.
Shadowrath instant kill? Ehhh...Nope, they're not to Medusa & Marrowkai...and Giant (obviously), Jugger Knight (still a bit obvious), Eclipsor (too freaking obvious), even freaking Deads.
Meric healing and curing? They are overwhelmed with the ammount of patients they have to deal with. Buy more of them so they can work effectively? Then less offensive units to deal the damage and tank the damage.
Oh so OP Magikill? Ehh...a bunch of Jugger Knight/ 1 Medusa...
Enslaved giant being ranged...yet they have less health so less tanking value and they can't stun multiple enemies, they will need to be put on frontline for their tankiness to work so...ranged is nothing.
Albowtross? Slow in both training time and flight speed, easily overwhelmed by Eclipsors.

You want to deal the blow? I gave you the blow.

It is relatively balanced. So don't complain when you lose. I know I don't, only a bit mad but I can live with it.


First off, nobody upgrades crawlers unless they are wayyy in the lead. If they have upgraded crawlers then you lost a long time ago.

Second, kiting is EXTREMELY useful throughout the ENTIRE game against ANY unit.

Third, refer to my above arguments about speartons.

Fourth, shadowrath can use shinobi II on a medusa/marrowkai then hit it once afterword and your Medusa/Marrowkai will be dead.

Fifth, I can agree about Eclipsors, but Deads? No. Deads are not at all useful against anyone who isnt turtling.

Sixth, if you have one or two merics, sure, they can be overwhelmed by the amount of units they need to heal, but it still doesnt offset the amount that they heal and the sheer fact that its an instant heal/cure.

Seventh, Enslaved Giants don't have THAT much less health and Chaos Giants can only stun three units at a time with minimal damage. Enslaved giants on the other hand do tons of damage to units, especially armored one like chaos giants or juggerknights.

Eighth, that "bunch of juggerknights" are gonna get their asses kicked by elec wall and/or poison coupled with units like archers and speartons. And once again, those ninjas can kill your Medusa. And if you see a medusa MOVE YOUR MAGE BACK.

I can give you the point about the albowtross. They are useless vs chaos.
isgood

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Jul 1, 2013 4:32 PM #1023876
Sure, one more ninja regular hit would kill the medusa/marrow, but that puts too much danger on the ninja, as if you are going to hit and run, trying to hit one more time reduces the chance oh the ninja getting away when they have other units. What you want is to kill the medusa, and have the ninja come out ALIVE.

Also, swords don't have double the health of swords because crawlers have health regen, so it is more like a third more health. I do have to admit the damage of crawlers is kind or pathetic compared to swords. Swords are also too weak against bombers. It seems like all you have to do is separate your units and it is soooo easy to do that. No. Separating units isn't easy, and it is pretty difficult. And what's chaos' counter to separating units? Holding their bombers until the swords get back together. Then we have to separate them over and over again and for the whole time crawlers are putting damage on the swords while the swords are just running around trying to not get killed by bombers. And what happens when the order player bypasses that? They cam separate the bombers and detonate, which should be as easssyy as separating swords, and separating bombers beating separating swords as bombers put a large dent on sword health.
Nyarlathotep

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Jul 1, 2013 4:51 PM #1023891
Quote from isgood
Sure, one more ninja regular hit would kill the medusa/marrow, but that puts too much danger on the ninja, as if you are going to hit and run, trying to hit one more time reduces the chance oh the ninja getting away when they have other units. What you want is to kill the medusa, and have the ninja come out ALIVE.

Also, swords don't have double the health of swords because crawlers have health regen, so it is more like a third more health. I do have to admit the damage of crawlers is kind or pathetic compared to swords. Swords are also too weak against bombers. It seems like all you have to do is separate your units and it is soooo easy to do that. No. Separating units isn't easy, and it is pretty difficult. And what's chaos' counter to separating units? Holding their bombers until the swords get back together. Then we have to separate them over and over again and for the whole time crawlers are putting damage on the swords while the swords are just running around trying to not get killed by bombers. And what happens when the order player bypasses that? They cam separate the bombers and detonate, which should be as easssyy as separating swords, and separating bombers beating separating swords as bombers put a large dent on sword health.


Its called micro, its not too difficult when you know what you're doing. If you're having trouble with something as simple as moving swords you're gonna have a bad time.
awesomebloc
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Jul 1, 2013 11:10 PM #1024078
I've had many times when in the beginning on short maps I get sword spammed and luckily I get 4 bombers to counter so he sends a fake army that I didn't know was fake and my bombers kill them then 5 seconds later BOOM about 20 swords come raging out and my bombers training time is my down fall
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