Quote from xiao-xiao94

Anyways,Steiner has said everything that I was going to say...so I agree with him.He's said everything that this forum needs to know in my opinon.

Wow.
God must've sent you to post.
Because that post was exactly what we needed...
Actually, the only thing I'm thanking you for is bumping mah thread.

Now, the one I'm going to react to, is steiner. Because of:
'God did actually write the bible. You would know this if you were raised a Christian. He told the writers what to write. He dictated to them via dreams and whatnot.'

Yh...

If people say they woke up by bright flashing lights, look up to the sky and saw a UFO (Which are even more plausible than God), then fall asleep, people say they were dreaming and just want attention.
I once woke up because of a moving chair, 2 weeks ago because the washing machine moved inches from the wall. People say I dreamt it all...

But when those guys write down what they (say) to have dreamt in order of a God, you suddenly believe it?

I am beginning to doubt the brain capacity of Homo Sapiens...

ok. god made us in his image, and in his image he made us with free will, and the ability to love and cherish. first of all, take this into consideration - god can get angry, he can be mean when pushed, but he would never harm anyone, and it is for these reasons we are the way we are. we are made in his image, and he has free will and the choice to do good or bad. the fact is he chooses not to do bad, but WE do. and as for there being a "plan" - i dont think there is a plan. i think God can see into the close future if he wished, but only by predicting our actions and what we shall do next. and as for the different religions thing, people have different relgions because they disagre on some fronts but agree on most. and as for heaven and hell - no i dont believe in heaven, and neither do most christians i think you'll find. a common mistake is thinking all christians beliee in that. i personally beliee that armageddon shall come and we shall all be given a second chance, and our minds shall be opened to the power of God. as for all the bad things going on today, I went to a christian meeting and there are people who have studied the bible and have shown that it states Satan (the devil) is in control at this present time. the conversation between god and Satan would probably go like this:

Satan: "i think i can do a better job than you"
God: "well i cant say no, as it wouldnt prove anything, so ill let you control for a while until you screw it up, and i shall fix it"
Satan: "ok then"

so very simplified that is what its like. and in these meetings ive been to they have made references in the bible to WWI and WWII and the ruling of satan starting at the beginning of WWI.

ok so those are my views, and before you ask, yes these were Jehovah's witness meetings, and i cannot reference the bible paragraphs that state what i have said because quite frankly i dont know them, but i can assure you that they are there.

[edit]
sorry for spelling mistakes, i was in a rush

Why do people have to blame satan for everything bad. its stupid. As for the debate, I dont believe in god, I never did, but I respect other peoples opinions that there could be a god. I think that this whole thread is a waste of time as there is no proof that god exists, nor is there any that he doesnt, therefore, everyone is going to have their own opinion and views, and there will never be a decision. take me for example. I dont believe in god, never have, never will. nothing you say will change that, and i realize that as much as I realize that nothing I say will change your opinion. there is no conclusive proof for either side, so this whole debate is pointless.

This thread is complete shit.

I'm staying out.

I know I said this recently in another thread, but to practically everyone who has posted here thus far...

..you're all idiots.


The posts I've seen are so stupid that once again I'm having a hard time elaborating as to why you're all wrong and what I'm about to say will completely blow you out of the water and hurt your feelings so hard that your grandchildren will shit their pants twenty years down the road and blow a hole in their pants suddenly killing your family pet.

For one, the question, "Is god real?" is the dumbest question ever asked in the history of time, and for simply asking that question you give me and everyone else in thread a perfectly good excuse to beat you with a 2x4. Let me tell you why this is though, because I don't think anyone has schooled you here yet.

"God" can be any of the "Gods" ever created from any religion ever. While I know you are assuming Christianity (Because anyone who knows nothing about religion always does) it can be applicable to any religion where a deity is on the receiving end of worship.

Secondly, asking whether or not god is "real" assumed that the people asking your question have any idea about the matter, which they don't. This is including myself, I can't tell you if god(s) is real or not, I haven't met the guy/girl/omnipontent floaty spirit in the sky. And frankly unless I sit down and have a cup of coffee with god(s) I can't rightly answer the question you're asking. I can however make fun of you and make funny jokes about making your kids shit themselves.

Now to your first point:
"I think that if god made humans to his own reflection, why would he make us so bad? Theft, war, murder, money-eating lawyers and poverty. Only 5 examples of our cruelness. This could still mean that there was a god, but that would mean that we shouldn't like him that much to give him religions."

Hmm... why would god make us bad... especially if we are created in his own image? Again I'm going to assume you are referring to Judaism/Christianity and completely toss out any other known religions in the world, which is fine I guess. Let me clear this up, god didn't make us bad, nor did he make us good. As I know someone said in this thread, we are blessed with the awesome power of free will, or in other words the ability to do whatever the **** we want. Even if you aren't a religious person this is true, we have free will, isn't it obvious? Also, if you believe in predetermination, you're an idiot. If you read the passage and think about it, being created in somethings image means it will physically look the same, if he created us to a science to be exactly like him(her, it, whatever) then we would all be all knowing omnipotent deities, and that would be even worse.

Second point:
"Now, I understand that god has this plan. The almighty plan of the universe. Wich is in total conflict with free will, but yeah...
So, he has a plan. Then what does he need hell for? To punish people? Couldn't he just make everyone good in his plan? Isn't hell useless, if you have a plan? What happened to 'God loves everyone', anyway?
But, this still doesn't disprove that there is a god. It just makes him sadistic."

Uhhh... once again you assume a lot in your question. I'll do my best to answer it anyway.

First off let me say that the bible is open for interpretation, whatever you read and whatever you are told by other idiots isn't necessarily true, and to be honest I'd say everyone is probably wrong and full of shit. With that said, you don't know god's plan, I don't know god's plan, and whether or not us going to heaven or hell is in it is not something anyone will know. If you're curious, read your bible, and get an open ended translation style one so you can draw your own conclusions. Don't listen to idiots at the church, your parents, or me for that matter.

Also, a literal hell is probably bullshit, I don't think for a second that god would cast you into a fiery pit to burn forever for doing wrong. I also don't believe Jesus is the only way to get to heaven, ect ect ect. It's all bullshit, do your research.

Hell is a mechanism used to create fear in humanity and show them that their wicked ways will not be tolerated, whether or not you think it's a literal hell doesn't really matter... Some believe hell is basically just a world away from god, others believe it's a firepits (these people are idiots), some people think you'll be obliterated and cease to exist. In the end, who cares? If you don't love god, why would you want to spend an eternity praising him anyway?

Final point:
"So if there would be a loving god and he wanted to be praised, why would he make so many religions anyway? Wich mostly have the same basic thoughts, but still are soooo different from eachother? These differences (Did I spell it right, or should it be differenses?) make war and stuff like that, a good god wouldn't do something like that, would he?
But, of course this doesn't disprove that there is no god, but like the other ones, it proves that if there is a god, he isn't quite the god most people on earth thought he would be."

What? Tons and tons of people run around damning everyone for wiping their ass. I don't think too many people consider god a loving god, at least not unconditionally.

Also, god doesn't make religions, people do. That's why there is infinity billion religions. Pick one, you can't really go wrong.

God doesn't make war, people do.

Do I really have to clarify any more than I already have? The result of everything that happens in this world right now is people. I could start my own religion, and in the name of my own personal god destroy the planet and people would be damning the infinite deity that made me do it, but you know as well as I that this is bullshit. Whether or not go is real, nobody knows, whather or not Christianity is the way to go, or any other religion you can think of is entirely up to you. There is no right or wrong answer, so don't ask.

My real answer if you can consider it one, is do your own research and find what you do or don't believe. At least be informed about it. Too many people don't do any research, don't read any books, don't think about it at all.

If you want to be a super atheist, learn about every aspect of every religion and tear everyone down with what you know, that would be ultimately you're greatest ability. Till then, it's just stupid questions like this.

Let me just clarify on what i think he was saying

Quote from Fr0zEnPh0eNiX

God doesn't make war, people do.

Do I really have to clarify any more than I already have? The result of everything that happens in this world right now is people.
God made people, and also programmed them, so therefore god in a way programmed war into people. If god is perfect, h/s/it would have known what personality traits not to put in humanity to prevent war (eg. greed, pride, lust for power)

i just wanted to clear that one section up

Well personality traits don't change free will. A man who is peaceful and has discipline has the same free will as a man who kills for fun and lusts for power.

Quote from drocksta

Well personality traits don't change free will. A man who is peaceful and has discipline has the same free will as a man who kills for fun and lusts for power.

My point exactly. God created man to do whatever they want to do and have a whole wide variety of feelings, taking away from one of them would be the same as taking away free will.

Though, with that said, what if god had decided to take away feelings we can't experience now? Weird thought.

Ah so you're saying man has created all their own problems? Well, i am much happier with an imperfect world in which we have the free will to do good or bad rather than being stuck in a utopia where we only feel happiness. Then again, it isn't emotions or thoughts the god would take away, it would be more of the motivation behind it. If humans have a deep down desire for power, and god removed it, then the world would still work, yet there would be less corruption, more fulfillment, and far less war and assassinations.

I'm not gonna really post in here again, so talk about with other people maybe, but, when my brother was 4(I was 1), he had a friend named Hanna, she was 4 just as well, at this age, they really don't worry about this kind of stuff with God and everything. But one day, we realized that Hanna had luchemia(or however you spell it), she was going through a hard time, and the doctors said she was going to die. On the day of her death, she was with her mother in a bedroom. While sitting there, Hanna spoke, "Mommy, I see a monster with wings." Knowing how she was only 4, she had no idea what an "angel" was. Thus the second she said that, she died right in her mother's arms. It was a tragedy for the neighborhood. I'm not choosing sides here, but I'm just saying, think about it. Anyway, like I said, don't debate it with me, it's just a story.

there is no answer to this debate, or any religous debate debating the reality of religion (mind boggler much?).

/topic

let this thread die people

Before too much of the thread gets into Free Will, I want you all to know that there's already a thread on the subject. Keep the debate about free will there.

yes and let this one die.

FrozenPhoenix,
Thank you.

Finally a post that deserves to be called a post.
But calling everyone idiots wasn't necessery (Damnit, I can't spell can I?)

Now, as to which God I mean, is pretty much a weird question, because if there would be a God, it would probably be the God all monotheïst religions are talking about. They just all interpret this God differently, thus creating more religions.Still not giving answer to my last point, so try to trick me with that. God would've still made the decision for multiple religions.

'Is god real?' wasn't a question I wanted an answer to(well I do, but no one can answer it, actually knowing that he/she is right), it was the thought behind the debate. If you know what I mean. Don't really know how to say it.

Then, I'm going to oblibirate free will from God again (not free will in general, so ash don't whine). Assuming he made everything and that God was here all time, can only be logically explained if he doesn't have time. Which would mean he would know everything from all times. Knowing what would happen when he put us on Earth. Thus, free will giving by God would not be possible.

Now, for the statements: 'God doesn't make religions/war, people do'.
I seriously doubt that humans would've come up with that. And God made humans by his own image. Which would mean that War and Religion were already in God when he made them, right?

What you say about Hell, is something I have to agree you with (Grammar?), that was actually the point I was trying to make.

And yes, you're right, I should've done more research, but my actual goal wasn't for people on this forum to debate this intensely, I wanted to know how religious people thought about my questions. Thus, this being my research.


@ sacred: I have a question: Who else was there when she said it to her mom? And is her mom religious?

@jrockpunk: Idiot. Don't you know what a debate is? It's not something about a question being answered. A debate is a 'conversation' between two sides about a certain subject, giving the other side arguments why they are on that side. There is no answer, I know that. I was interested in your arguments. And now don't a little selfish attention whore, posting worthless crap, about letting this die, just because you can't answer those question.